$1.10 NLHE MTT Turbo Rebuy: Could this bust have been avoided?

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HowToKapow

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1600 players remaining in a 5,5k player tourney.
9 handed, blinds are 3500/7000
Hero has 21BB on the button, with Qs Kd
hands fold to the CO, Villain limps with 25BB VPIP 29% and PFR 6%
Hero shoves, SB folds, Big Blind calls, CO folds

Villain in the BB shows pocket aces, lost all chips
Cooler or terrible shove?
 
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Ambur

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Terribad - 21BB is playable stack especially IP!

Is there ante involved and if so, how much?
 
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Ambur

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10% ante - does not justifie going AI pre!

2 option which i like here: bet standard amount+little extra or limp along, since you got position! imo
 
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PBG789

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Pretty much a terrible shove imo. You are only getting called by better and you don't need to be in shove fold mode. A standard raise to 2.5-3BB would be my play here and an easy fold if you are 3-bet.
 
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HowToKapow

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Thanks a ton for the responses!
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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I don't mind this shove. It's a bit risky. You have to figure when he limps the CO he's got a marginal hand and you have a ton of FE. Most people who get tricky by lmping with AA/KK do so from early position.

I'm trying to think what I would have done in your shoes. If it folded to the CO who raised to about 3bb then I think I would have jammed like 80% of the time (depending on my recent image). But since he just limped, I think I would have raised to about 3.5bb and attempted to play a pot in position vs. a range that I most likely dominate. If he then springs the trap preflop and jams I honestly don't know what I'd do...it's a weird move and with his high limp % and low raise % I would tend to think I'm 40-50% at worst, expecting him to show up with a hand like 55 or A7. So would probably end up calling due to pot odds. Then I'd be shocked.

Look, sometimes we get trapped and there's not really a way out of it. It's not exactly the same as a cooler, it's just that he elected to take a trappy line and you were the poor SOB who woke up with some kind of a hand at that exact moment. Normally he's losing tons of value by playing his monster this way, but sometimes it pays off. Sucks to be the one who gets trapped though.

Let's look at our other options:
FOLDING: Super nitty. Hate it.
Limping along: OK I guess, but awfully passive and just begging one of the blinds to jam if they have a reasonable hand and the right stack size.
RAISE/FOLD: When villain limps the pot contains 23,800 before our raise. Let's say we raise to 3.5bbs now the pot has an extra 24,500 for a total of 48,300. And we have a stack behind of 122,500. the limper puts us all in so now the pot has 170,800 and it's costs us 122,500 to call so we're getting pot odds of 1.39:1 or in other words we need to have 41% equity for this to be a break even call, which usually we'll have vs. most ranges.

I would definitely prefer some kind of a raise here; which raise size is the best is the only question in my mind.
 
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PBG789

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It's not the CO (they limp folded) who has AA here its the BB so hero was not trapped. CO stats suggest a call is their most likely response to hero raise and you get to play a pot in position with a hand that is ahead of a lot of CO range. Also shoving 147K into a 24K pot when you are only going to be called by better doesn't make sense to me.
 
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Ambur

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It's not the CO (they limp folded) who has AA here its the BB so hero was not trapped. CO stats suggest a call is their most likely response to hero raise and you get to play a pot in position with a hand that is ahead of a lot of CO range. Also shoving 147K into a 24K pot when you are only going to be called by better doesn't make sense to me.


Ofcourse going AI preflop is bad advise in this situation!

Jep, hero was not trapped! Got owned by random AA - irrelevant. imo

And i think raise preflop is best option here, as said above! (to narrow the field)
 
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Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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Oh you guys are right. I misunderstood and thought the CO had the AA. Yeah. So you just raise pre and have a pretty easy fold when BB jams.
 
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