$1.10 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Is this EVER a good idea?

[teh_colonel_saigon]

I saw the pot odds and couldn't resist. Plus I figure it pays to get a bigger stack earlier in a tournament. I know most of you guys would argue against this play (I can already tell), but we're never dominated here. And we are getting a good price for sure!

No Limit Hold'em Tournament 75/150
Buy-in: Nightly $1.10 - $500 Gtd [Deep]
Merge Network
9 players


Stacks:
UTG - UTG (4,985)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (30,121)
UTG+2 - UTG+2 (19,913)
MP - MP (2,706)
MP2 - MP2 (5,609)
CO - CO (4,322)
BTN - Hero (3,567)
SB - SB (4,835)
BB - BB (9,877)

Preflop: (360, 9 players) Hero is BTN with 6c 7c
UTG bets 4,970 (all-in), UTG+1 calls T4,970, 1 fold, MP bets T2,691 (all-in), 2 folds, Hero bets 3,552 (all-in), 2 folds

Pot was 12,991 when it got to us. We're getting 3.65 : 1 !!! How can you say no to that? (Can you?)

Especially early in a tournament with rebuys. I figure if there is any hand to do this with, its 67s.

Please let me know your thoughts, or similar scenarios. I'm more interested in these types of calls in general- when would they be appropriate?

 

[magicius]

Well in rebuys many players want huge stack early,thus shoving any 2 cards.... Dunno bout this hand,it has potential,but i would never call a shove with that early in tourney...

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[WiZZiM]

ummm ok. choice of hand is great.

however

pot odds don't tell the whole story, we are also playing against our opponents ranges, so even if we're getting 4:1 on a call, we could be losing this pot something like 80%+ and thats over the long run. If this is a rebuy i'm fine with it, we have a funky hand that can hit many flops and the players ranges don't have to be that tight. Overall, i'd be folding here. You say we're very unlikely to be dominated, which isn't quite true, you have to think about over pairs here, which dominate the shit out of our hand.

point is, don't get carried away with pot odds, you also have to compare the odds you get to the equity of your hand vs villains range of hands. So in this case we would likely have anywhere from 10-25% equity depending on the player ranges (which i would think are impossible to get anywhere near correct). so make the call if you want, but be prepare to double rebuy and try again.

 

[Dubstep]

67 is not so good in this spot because your vsing like 3 players. They are going to hit there high cards all day. The best chance you have of winning is going to be two pair. You will be dodging way to many high cards.

 

[Dubstep]

This call would only be good if you where in the big blind and vsing 1 player. and you would need pot odds of 1 to 2 to make the call.

 

[DonV73]

I agree with WiZZiM here. Don't overrate pot odds in tourneys. They are not unimportant of course, but imo you should never base your decision on that alone. You dont want to risk your tourney life by taking a gamble so early.

You can do what you did in cashgames where you can buyin again and where pot odds are of much more importance in decision making.

Hope this helps.

 

[thatgreekdude]

when you consider that you'll only take a chunk (all be it a big chunk) of the pot due to stack sizes, you'd be getting something more along the lines of 3:1 odds meaning that you'd need 25% equity to make the call, you'd have to assume villains have overcards and overpairs in there range, occasionally villains are stealing each others outs but a lot of the time villains will show up with overpairs that dominate us and diminish our equity significantly to around 20% meaning this isn't a great call. If you are well rolled and can afford to take the risk and rebuy if you lose then go for it, it's not at all terrible to make the call.

 

[hffjd2000]

So this is a rebuy tourney.

Pot odds might be good but your equity is bad.

Even if I have much money, I still have to be selective on my SH.

 

[teh_colonel_saigon]

Yea... ok I see now. Most of the equity against higher cards is making a pair/two pair when the opponent misses- only a fraction of it if from straights and flushes. I saw a Poker Bank video on youtube that described this in part (if you are interested: /watch?v=71qKxqTY4fg)

Which is partially why I actually am losing money on SCs (according to my poker software).

So this is a rebuy tourney.

Lol, yea. I actually was getting correct odds here since crazy people were shoving with similar unpaired hands (though, again, I see why this is a bad idea.) Getting a big stack early on is definitely a good idea, many people go for three rebuys.

 

[JPoling]

i just dont see how this can be a good call.

 

[Arjonius]

In order to have pot odds to get it in here, you have to assume not only that all three opponents' ranges are very wide. It's one thing to assume they're getting it in with quite a few unpaired hands, but another to realize that for the pot odds to be okay - just okay, not solidly +EV - those ranges may have to include more than half of all possible combos. And for all three opponents.

Even in a rebuy, this seems rather optimistic.

 

[spiderman637]

Sorry to say but i totally disagree that this card range play of urs is futile, wat early may it be in a tourney, how many rebuys may it be. U may hit big stack with it too some times....but a better card range for shoving will definitly bring a big change in the percentage of times u end up with good stack at the end of rebuy period....Also it is advised to play as many as few but best hands before rebuy time and ones u get good stack just sit back and relax till the rebuy time finishes...many get greedy and lose wat they have won to fishes who play with any 2 hands to get a stack before rebuy off time...