This is a discussion on $0.12 NLHE MTT Turbo: Fold or Call? within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Hand Analysis section; Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (40 ante) - 8 players
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UTG: 44,080 (110 bb)
UTG+1: 96,560 (241 bb)
MP: 44,080 (110 bb)
Hi, I'm wondering if I should have folded to this shove by the player in the small blind. Reviewing it has me thinking I should have folded here based on the hand went up until then but I figured getting more opinions couldn't hurt.
I don't know, at microstakes people have tendency to go all-it either with 2 pairs and more on with an Ace on the board, I'd say here it's a call one out of three times, but mostly you have your life here and fold. And 3 ways here you shoud've checked on the turn since you hit it and hope your top pair would be good, because board is scary for sure
i dunno but OTT if im committing 18K, Im just gonna jam as well. and def jamming OTR (I AM NOT COMMITTING 18K OTT AND CHECKING DOWN - Shove that turn and you might scoop the 2nd pot as I think you are smoked OTT by the first jammer.
5 way flop listen to the above advice, check the flop and be prepared to get set up for hitting top OTT.
What was the purpose of betting 1/4 pot on the turn? What are you trying to accomplish with the bet? If someone is on a draw they are getting a good price to call and see a river card. In your situation IMO you should either bet way bigger to force marginal hands out or to check as others have stated. The turn bet just looks weak considering multi way.
As already mentioned this should be a check on the flop. With a K and Q on the board going against 3 opponents someone has already hit something and you arent getting them to go anywhere. Your best hope here is that there is a check behind you after you check and we get to see what the turn brings. When you net here you are usually putting money in the middle against a hand you are behind.
On the turn I like betting whether you bet or check the flop. I dont like your sizing at all because every draw is out there, two hearts, two clubs and 3 to a straight. I dont think you have to go crazy with your sizing but it should be enough to charge draws if just one other villain calls so at least 4500 as played but I would go bigger than that. If you had checked the flop now it would be easier to bet larger to charge draws since the pot would be smaller. When SB jams here I am almost instantly folding. The reason why I would is that if they are on a draw here why wouldnt they just take the near free card that our small bet is giving them? Usually when facing a small bet villain will only call there with a draw instead of going for it. I am thinking they have two pair or J10 that they think is good now but also see all the draws on the board so they want to "protect" it.
I will go with the majority here and say check the flop and hope, CO checks behind. Its fairly optimistic to C-bet as a semi-bluff into 3 other people, and especially on a KQ2 board with a flushdraw, where they will have top pair or second pair a lot. Your draw is also not so great, that building the pot is a consideration here. You only have 3 outs to the nuts, and your other improvement cards including the backdoor flushdraw might give you an expensive second best hand.
As played this is now a check, since TPTK on this board multiway is more of a showdown value type hand. Yes there are a lot of draws available, but your hand is simply not strong enough to warrant protection in a multiway pot. You are also not getting protection by betting so small. If flop had gotten checked through, and they checked to you again, then I would put out a healthy 2/3 pot bet to charge all those draws or make them fold.
When SB check-jam, its usually going to be two pair or better on a board texture like this, and especially so in the micros. So as played I would bet-fold and save my last chips for a better spot. Also if I was going to continue, then it very much looks like, CO is on some kind of draw. So I would not just call. I would overshove to push CO out of the pot or create a side pot against him, where I expect to be ahead almost always. I dont think, CO has any slowplay on the turn, when the board is this wet, so you are essentially always ahead of him.
You have around 1/3 pot sized bet left against CO, and as I already said, you are basically always ahead of him. I am also not super worried about backdoor clubs coming in, so as played I would jam for value against CO and hope, he calls with a worse one pair hand like AT, KJ, KT etc.
If you check to him, you also need to consider, what you do, if he jam, and its kind of a tough spot getting 4:1. I dont want to check-fold getting such great odds on a relatively clean river card, and I think, there is more value in jamming than in check-calling. This is especially so because neither player can really bluff, given that even if the bluff gets through, they still need to beat SB at showdown. So if CO have a busted draw, he is just going to give up and check back. But basically I would have made every decision on previous streets different, so I would never end up in this river spot.
I personally think that it is a big mistake to make a continuation bet in a pot where there are 4 more players involved in the hand and that also two high cards came out so it is very likely that one of the players has at least a pair of kings, making your c bet useless in most cases. I also think that it is very likely that the person who have played all in could have a hand like j10 or a double pair so folding aj seems a reasonable thing to do, especially considering that you only had a pair of aces so there are many hands that beat yours like aq, kq, a2, 22 or j10. it's still a tough decision to make but i think i would just fold in this situation.
So the short of the answer is fold definatly unless you have some really good reason for thinkink that this guy is capable of flot shoving a 9 * example <or at least something similar. However there were deffinatly a few spots in there where you could have changed the bets alot and not had nearly as hard a time... So first shave some off that preflop raise like 1100 or 1000 sometimes ever 850 but anyway this keeps the pot smaller and makes all future things easier. Then on the flop my normal sugestion is check unless you know these people range a little better here than a vacum and then you might bet the 2.:3 or whatever bet that is.. Having done just that simple thing it makes his shove look way stronger, and makes it much easier to fold cus there is less money and you are totally priced out... Without looking at the results i would say he has pocket duces, or ace q... anyway good luck
For me the first big mistake is betting flop - when we are multiway people are less inclined to bluff so we should rarely semi bluff especially when we are in the middle like this. Also due to the fact we are multi way and everyone should be bluffing much less- our bet sizings can be much smaller and still be very effective. You wouldn't catch me betting this flop without AK, KQ, or a set -- i am likely check-calling JT of hearts when we are 100bb deep like this and check-shoving JT of hearts when we are about 35bb effective on this flop.
Anyhow, moving on. The A on the turn is not a great card for us...we do block JT but that combo certainly comes in on the turn - AQ is ahead of us, KQ is ahead of us - we honestly just do not beat much here with our top pair...when we bet twice multiway this should convey some serious strength - so getting raised is a DISASTER here and I would say the chances of us being good are slim to none...i would've check-called this turn card and likely folded to a large river bet -- as played i am definitely folding to the turn check-raise.
Basically just break down the board on the turn and think about what hands you are beating that could've called the flop bet...there just arent very many unless you've got a villan going nuts with AT or KT - other than that...im just not seeing much you are ahead of here. Getting in 100bb on this board with a marginal top pair is just asking to lose a bunch of chips.
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