$0.11 NLHE STT: 4 Handed Hypers

[EvertonGirl]

Should I have called a shove here, I am not used to hypers. Is any 2 overs a call in these.

PokerStars - $0.10+$0.01|25/50 Ante 10 NL (4 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 555
BB: 50 (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 5)
CO: 325 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BTN: 1,070 (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 5)

4 players post ante of 10, Hero posts SB 25, BB posts BB 40

Pre Flop: (pot: 105) Hero has Q♠ K♥

fold, BTN raises to 1,060 and is all-in, fold

Flop: (145, 2 players) 5♠ J♠ 9♦

Turn: (145, 2 players) 4♣

River: (145, 2 players) Q♥

I am trying not to be nitty in these, my SS callin shoves has been a leak for me lately, I want advice to snap me out of these crazy folds I am doing. I don't care about the end result, just want to know if folding was wrong/correct.

 

[Ambur]

Do not take it as must be since i do not play hypers regularly

Working out ranges here is most important - since initial opener has chip lead, he jam AI with that range where he does not want play multiway. Rough quess he has Ax rag most of time+some sort preflop value hands (low pocket pairs possible etc.) or complete air!

Since you r OOP you should fold, if my intuition is correct! ( i would but villain Ax rag where x is below Q) vs this range we have ~40% equity!

Do not take it as must be, but most often people open shove any Ax rag at those games!

I would like to know what hypers regular would think about it

 

[EvertonGirl]

Do not take it as must be since i do not play hypers regularly

Working out ranges here is most important - since initial opener has chip lead, he jam AI with that range where he does not want play multiway. Rough quess he has Ax rag most of time+some sort preflop value hands (low pocket pairs possible etc.) or complete air!

Since you r OOP you should fold, if my intuition is correct! ( i would but villain Ax rag where x is below Q) vs this range we have ~40% equity!

Do not take it as must be, but most often people open shove any Ax rag at those games!

I would like to know what hypers regular would think about it

Yea me too.

Yea was thinking A-rag as it was an ace-rag that finally knocked me out when I shoved with AQs, you do see a lot of them in these kind of games.

 

[EvertonGirl]

According to ICM I should of called.

BTN: 42.7%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K5o+ Q4s+ Q8o+ J7s+ J9o+ T7s+ T9o 97s+ 87s
SB: Any two.
BB: 23.8%, 33+ A2s+ A3o+ K8s+ KTo+ QTs+

 

[Ambur]

If you would have suited QKs vs Ax, x lower then Q we could have ~45% equity! - Would bring you closer to coinflip! Just thoughts. imo

 

[EvertonGirl]

If you would have suited QKs vs Ax, x lower then Q we could have ~45% equity! - Would bring you closer to coinflip! Just thoughts. imo

Yea would mostly be a coinflip in most situations. I was against 77 from the button and BB was all in for being v short with 82o

 

[WiZZiM]

whats the payout structure? Assuming first only gets paid?

The ICM is likely very wrong and it honestly looks like a NASH graph.

 

[EvertonGirl]

whats the payout structure? Assuming first only gets paid?

The ICM is likely very wrong and it honestly looks like a NASH graph.

It is a ICM NASH, I only learmt about NASH today from watching a dragthebar vid so just experimenting with it

Structure is 2 tickets and 3rd gets $3.50. I don't know how to write the structure in the calculator, so could be wrong cos of that.

 

[WiZZiM]

yeah well if it doesn't have the structure and you haven't tinkered with the ranges then it's hugely likely to be completely wrong.

Also is this a larger field MTT? is this even the final table?

sorry to be asking so many questions, but a ton of info is missing here that is pretty crucial to working out if the call is good or not...

 

[EvertonGirl]

Sorry thought I had put it as a shootout 4 handed hyper satty.

Starts off with 256 runners, I got to round 2 by winning the first table. Then waited for 64 people left before round 2 started.

I was trying to input the NASH part of it into the game, as I believe that NASH relies more on when you have 10-15 bbs at the bubble stage and ICM more for the FT. Could be wrong like. When I was watching every day I'm Nashing it, she was using the NASH ranges before she got to the FT in a 45man, which confused me as I was thinking you use the ICM on a STT SNG or a FT in a MTT

 

[WiZZiM]

right so you have to win all the chips in play

Forget ICM and NASH and just keep it simple here....

Does he jam JT Q9s etc? What did he showdown in the all in pot he won vs the BB player? If he jams broadways Ax and pairs we have to make this call, our hand runs well vs any range, so we have to have a good reason to fold, i can't see any here. The fact we need to win all the chips and we are (assuming) no where near the money, makes this an easy call imo.

Now if this is the Final table, we can revert back to an $ICM decision, in which case it's a clear fold, since we have 3rd place wrapped up since the BB is so short.

 

[bremensha]

Most often you are a small underdog in a heads up running against a small ace or a low/medium pair. So a fold is asked for
Vs 2 opponents your odds are much better and a call is justified.

 

[EvertonGirl]

right so you have to win all the chips in play

Forget ICM and NASH and just keep it simple here....

Does he jam JT Q9s etc? What did he showdown in the all in pot he won vs the BB player? If he jams broadways Ax and pairs we have to make this call, our hand runs well vs any range, so we have to have a good reason to fold, i can't see any here. The fact we need to win all the chips and we are (assuming) no where near the money, makes this an easy call imo.

Now if this is the Final table, we can revert back to an $ICM decision, in which case it's a clear fold, since we have 3rd place wrapped up since the BB is so short.

Didn't have much info on him, only 5 hands and seen 1 showdown, which he had T9s to win the flush. He never shoved pre it was always a limp, until that hand he shoved with his pocket 7s.

 

[WiZZiM]

yeah no real solid info on him than he likes to play wider than average ranges preflop, so for me, at this buyin level and it being a hyper turbo i want to talk myself into making these calls more often than not with hands like this, because players tend to be crazier than we presume they can be, and because not taking on calling opportunities is burning money, since the golden days of shoving wide calling tight are well and truly over. Gotta make the call here if we assume he's capable of jamming in broadways, which i think most average hyper turbo players are, and since he's shown a willingness to play more hands than anyone else at the table, i think we have to make the call here...

 

[WiZZiM]

i mean it's only AK AQ we're crushed against, everything else we are fine with. Taking flips is kind of essential in this format

 

[Ambur]

Have been playing in stars those hypers low buy in(not lately but sometimes i did), usually they do not open shove that often broadway IP. - I mean really would you like to open shove broadway and risking to lose half stack! I would not, usually i would make standard open and reevaluate, if i would be opponent! + our common goal should be to take out BB!

Less likely we will see here broadways, based on experience! -Higher stakes i do not know! He has eather Ax or low pocket pairs most often, and vs his most often range we are slightly behind. And if he has broadway then it is just variation of his open-shove range, which i assume happens only when they have certain read on you or they just willing to gamble! - So any useful info can make it calling hand! imo

Usually when i played those i called when QK where suited and fold when off suit! - ofcourse it depends on structure!

One important factor is BB in this hand, and if he come along with any 2 cards, then we can justify calling (but note that BB has ability to triple up apr. 25%), but vs initial opener we are most likely a little underdog! but i do not mind you can call and look what happens Hero decision to make!

But do not take it as must be!

Just 2 cent of mine!

 

[Ambur]

Forgot to mention, but, meh this is not the case probably! But anyway, maybe useful for other scenario!

Big stack should not get into fight each other, they should make love not war! :handkiss:

Spoiler

:marchmell

 

[EvertonGirl]

I do believe I should of called

 

[WiZZiM]

if he doesnt jam broadways then i think we have to make a laydown, but if he isn't jamming broadways good news is that he will call too tight, so in future hands we can make some really loose shoves.

So go with your in game reads/biases, if you think he jams all broadways or wider call, if not, fold and make sure you jam good and wide into him and other players as they will call too tight.

 

[WiZZiM]

oh, and if you play enough of these and have a tracker, you can run a filter to see what players are showing up with in all in showdowns with shoves under 12 bb, but you'd need quite a big sample to get any meaningful data

 

[PBG789]

The reality of these tournaments are that they are a bit of a crap shoot. You start with 500 chips and the blinds are 25/50 with an ante of 10. There is not much room for niceties! In this format I'm getting all my chips in with KQ in most situations and would be definitely calling this one. Bear in mind that in no time at all the blinds will be up to 50/100 - you have to take chances!

 

[EvertonGirl]

The reality of these tournaments are that they are a bit of a crap shoot. You start with 500 chips and the blinds are 25/50 with an ante of 10. There is not much room for niceties! In this format I'm getting all my chips in with KQ in most situations and would be definitely calling this one. Bear in mind that in no time at all the blinds will be up to 50/100 - you have to take chances!

Yea I agree with that

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

My initial thought was to fold, because I thought it was a 6man hyper top 2 paid and to me, that would be a clear fold.

But if I'm understanding this correctly you have to win this whole table to move to the next round and there are still 64 players left? meaning the next round will have 2 tables of 4players for a total of 8 people?

If that is the case, then yeah you're gonna have to mix it up with the big stack sometime and it may as well be now, KQ does OK vs most wide-ish or short stacked ranges.

 

[EvertonGirl]

My initial thought was to fold, because I thought it was a 6man hyper top 2 paid and to me, that would be a clear fold.

But if I'm understanding this correctly you have to win this whole table to move to the next round and there are still 64 players left? meaning the next round will have 2 tables of 4players for a total of 8 people?

If that is the case, then yeah you're gonna have to mix it up with the big stack sometime and it may as well be now, KQ does OK vs most wide-ish or short stacked ranges.

Yea you have to win the whole table, if I had won the 2nd round there would of been 16 players left. When you get to the 4th round that is the final table, so 1st round starts 256 people, round 2 starts 64, 3rd round 16, and 4th (FT) 4

 

[iflylight]

i think this is always a fold because with the co is short so if bb dosent double in this hand then you are guarenteed 32 buy ins but if you call and are wrong and the the bb doubles any you get eliminated thats the worst possible thing to happen.
I think that was a bit confusing but basically you have about a 90% of cashing if you fold and kq isint a 90% favourite

also with the co going to being the blinds next there is a good chance he will get short and be eliminated

this is a very tough spot but i would probably fold