Sharkscope gets dealt a blow?

[dudemanstan]

Better to use a free service like OPR, Macropoker or Topshark.

Thanks. I will check these out and see what it says about me. Did not know these existed.

 

[Aleksei]

This is retarded. sharkscope is opt-in. If you don't want your data displayed, you don't have to.

 

[Emperor IX]

That's one of my points. They are not a non-profit entity and they are therefore using my information to make a profit. And there is no option, that I know of, for me to opt out. I never even opted in. Or am I wrong on that? Because if I can "opt out" I will.

Also: It's only free for a while: "5 free searches remaining. Join now to get more searches/day and to unlock advanced features."

Now, do you know if those "advance features" are also free? And don't those features go above and beyond just the stats you listed?

I think the gist of these sites is to not only improve your game, but to give you an edge over your competition without having to work at it yourself to do so.

I'm 99% sure I opted out years and years ago

 

[Michael Paler]

This is retarded. Sharkscope is opt-in. If you don't want your data displayed, you don't have to.

You are not correct in that assessment my friend. I had to opt-out of sharkscope, not opt-in!

They automatically track every player in every game they observe the totals for. You have no choice in the matter as it is automatic; you have to opt out if you do not want them tracking you.

Not as retarded as you think, eh?

 

[Aleksei]

You are not correct in that assessment my friend. I had to opt-out of sharkscope, not opt-in!

So opt out and quit bitching. As a default you get more value out of public info than your villains do because the majority are fish and either don't know this exists or what to do with it.

Besides, literally the only thing that someone can learn about you from checking your Sharkscope profile is whether you're any good or not. They don't learn your style, your ranges, nothing they can ACTUALLY USE IN-GAME.

 

[Michael Paler]

So opt out and quit bitching. As a default you get more value out of public info than your villains do because the majority are fish and either don't know this exists or what to do with it.

Besides, literally the only thing that someone can learn about you from checking your Sharkscope profile is whether you're any good or not. They don't learn your style, your ranges, nothing they can ACTUALLY USE IN-GAME.

I did opt out, I should not have had to, so I think my bitching is justified, frankly. I know I could not do the same thing they are doing, not according to the OLP sites rules I had to agree to.

And if you seriously do not think that info alone could be of benefit to someone playing against you, keep thinking that, by all means.

Why else do people bitch and moan about the Bovada anonymous format? Tracking sites don't help with that, now do they?

 

[Aleksei]

Tracking sites don't help with that, now do they? [/I]

Because pokertracker tracks FAR more intricate information that a villain's winrate, and the more reads we have on people the more we can profit vs them.

A more relevant question: Why do players (who aren't you) not complain that PT4 is allowed on other sites? Because fish aren't gonna take advantage of it. So the edge is ours.

 

[Michael Paler]

Because pokertracker tracks FAR more intricate information that a villain's winrate, and the more reads we have on people the more we can profit vs them.

A more relevant question: Why do players (who aren't you) not complain that PT4 is allowed on other sites? Because fish aren't gonna take advantage of it. So the edge is ours.

You bring up an interesting point in your response. Also an interesting observation.

A fish is a weak player with limited knowledge of poker in general or it's subtle nuances, right?

A shark is someone well versed in the game and those nuances, able to take full advantage of it, absent any crutches, like software, right?

But what do you call players whose true skill is masked by the computerized software that helps them win? Players who do not like sites such as Bovada, because they cannot keep the same level of success without those programs to help their game?

A fish in a shark suit, perhaps? This certainly explains why we run across "big winners" in forums who cannot grasp those nuances in poker within a poker discussion. Ever notice that? Maybe this is because they falsely believe their wins make them a "good player" alone, when the "good player" is really the software they are using. Take away that software, they are not so good as they thought. When they venture into a live game, they face the same problem; a severe and very obvious lack of poker skill, IMHO.

And I still think this scares away casual players and fish who learn that people are using computers to help their game. Again, just my opinion, that's all.

Also, I am not saying this "shark suit" player type is you, so don't get me wrong I assume you know how to play without a crutch.

 

[Poker Orifice]

But what do you call players whose true skill is masked by the computerized software that helps them win? Players who do not like sites such as Bovada, because they cannot keep the same level of success without those programs to help their game?

You seem to be assuming that this is the reason many players do not like Bovada/bodog. It is not necessarily correct (ie. it's not the reason I dislike the anonymous format).
There are many reasons players do not like the anonymous format.... including the fact that it makes it easy for players to collude against you.

Playing anonymous poker w/o reads is akin to taking alot of the skill out of the game imo..... it's like turning chess into checkers.

This is off-topic though.

Why are you so concerned about other players knowing your game history? If you don't have many games played &/or have poor results, wouldn't this be to your advantage if you're actually a 'good player' (< one who knows the subtle nuances). I mean villain might jump to the conclusion that based on your stats. you're a rank amateur... this would be to your benefit... no?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Maybe this is because they falsely believe their wins make them a "good player" alone, when the "good player" is really the software they are using. Take away that software, they are not so good as they thought. When they venture into a live game, they face the same problem; a severe and very obvious lack of poker skill, IMHO.

Tracking software doesn't make a person a better player.
AND... this is not even relevant to the thread topic. The thread is about sharkscope is it not? (& earlier there seemed to be confusion about what this software actually even does).

There are other threads on the forum that discuss 'anonymous tables on Bovada' & also ones (many of them) that discuss using tracking software (ie. PokerTracker (PT3/PT4), HoldemManager (HEM).
Why not post your (IMHO comments) in those threads where it'd be relevant to the thread topic as I'm sure you'll get (or see.. if you read through them) responses/info./opinions, etc.

 

[Loonbat]

A shark is someone well versed in the game and those nuances, able to take full advantage of it, absent any crutches, like software, right?

But what do you call players whose true skill is masked by the computerized software that helps them win? Players who do not like sites such as Bovada, because they cannot keep the same level of success without those programs to help their game?

Your definition is poor. Most online sharks use whatever legitimate tools give them an edge because that is what a winning player is always looking for - an edge. Calling the tracking programs "crutches" shows how little you know about them ... databases giving players overall results are accessible to anyone and tracking programs like HM and PT track (if you use them legitimately) only the hands you have collected on opponents. Therefore, your time-on-task makes them more useful as you gather more data.

Your definition of fish should include being a player who fails to take advantage of all the tools which will make you a stronger and more profitable player. Stop bringing a knife to a gunfight, yo.

 

[Michael Paler]

Your definition is poor. Most online sharks use whatever legitimate tools give them an edge because that is what a winning player is always looking for - an edge. Calling the tracking programs "crutches" shows how little you know about them ... databases giving players overall results are accessible to anyone and tracking programs like HM and PT track (if you use them legitimately) only the hands you have collected on opponents. Therefore, your time-on-task makes them more useful as you gather more data.

Your definition of fish should include being a player who fails to take advantage of all the tools which will make you a stronger and more profitable player. Stop bringing a knife to a gunfight, yo.

Well, lets keep in mind that poker sharks were around long before online poker. So I do not think it's that far off, imo.

As for it being a "crutch" and me not understanding it, by all means prove it to yourself; try playing without it for a month, keep track (manually) of your stats and then see how it compares with the month you depend on it. Better yet, go over a play Bovada, see if the lack of computerized aids there affects your game.

With it or without it, your stats should stay the same, right? If not, well, you might learn something about your real "skill" level at poker.

And keep this in mind; anyone can show up at a knife fight with a gun and win. But you will not prove you are the best at knife fighting, will you? No, you only prove you do not have the guts to put yourself up against others in a fair fight.

 

[Aleksei]

^plenty of people play Bovada and rake in tons of $$$ off it, just because there's so many fish there.

 

[Michael Paler]

^plenty of people play Bovada and rake in tons of $$$ off it, just because there's so many fish there.

You know, someone just posted today that Bovada went anonymous to stop users of tracking software playing there and Bovada no longer wanted "good" players.

I think I am just going to bow out of this subject. I mean, it is just my opinion that certain information from certain software gives the user a distinct advantage over others. Some folks (not you, Aleski) get very upset (usually those who use it, imagine that), at the very thought of this and claim it simply cannot possibly give anyone an unfair advantage whatsoever. What I thought was common knowledge has instead pissed people off, which was not my intent.

But I am not an idiot, computer illiterate, or anything else I have been accused of being when this subject comes up (again my friend, I am not talking about you). But I will tell them all one thing; I know what BS smells like. And I can smell it a mile away.

 

[Blobweird123]

You know, someone just posted today that Bovada went anonymous to stop users of tracking software playing there and Bovada no longer wanted "good" players.

I think I am just going to bow out of this subject. I mean, it is just my opinion that certain information from certain software gives the user a distinct advantage over others. Some folks (not you, Aleski) get very upset (usually those who use it, imagine that), at the very thought of this and claim it simply cannot possibly give anyone an unfair advantage whatsoever. What I thought was common knowledge has instead pissed people off, which was not my intent.

But I am not an idiot, computer illiterate, or anything else I have been accused of being when this subject comes up (again my friend, I am not talking about you). But I will tell them all one thing; I know what BS smells like. And I can smell it a mile away.

Please enlighten us then as to how a HUD, which ANYONE can purchase and use within the limits of sites TOS, is an unfair advantage? You take what is your opinion and shout it at people while bolding and oversizing a bunch of stuff to be arrogant, but then expect people to just shrug and be ok with it? You want proof? Provide some yourself!

 

[Weissr]

This thread is ridiculous. Instead of just making things up do a little research before posting, or if you don't care to do so structure the thread something like:

"I just read that Sharkscope tracks people's playing information, does anyone know what they actually track about you (ie. wins/losses, how you play, what type of player you are, etc...)?"

When you tell people things are one way, they tend to believe you and assume you have a clue about what you're talking about which may cause others who are unfamiliar with the subject to get the wrong idea. I mean, if you want people to treat your posts with any credibility I'd think about switching things up.

 

[SyKoChiller]

SharkScope HUD is NOT free & its complete bs that someone can pay to what amounts to stealing my info. Its one of the main reasons I play at Bovada mostly & also why Bovada is one of the fastest growing US facing sites.
You would be charged with a Federal crime if you tried pulling the kind of things these programs do in a real Casino!! Nuff said.

 

[JusSumguy]

Summing this thread up...

So opt out and quit bitching.

-

 

[Blobweird123]

And yeah, for once I truly agree with Aleksei

 

[Loonbat]

Better yet, go over a play Bovada, see if the lack of computerized aids there affects your game.

You used the correct homonym for "there" as well as "affects" vs the incorrect "effects". I therefore respect your right to have an invalid argument :biggrin:

 

[IM deusXmachina]

Fair enough. But you also do not mind that your information is being used to profit a company without your permission?

I imagine somewhere in the fine print of the user agreement of every poker site, there is a stipulation that means you don't own the rights to the hand information or player stat info. So in essence they DO have our permission. Similarly to the wsop and WPT agreement that if you are filmed in THEIR tournament they can use your image ( likeness, etc.) to show for whatever purposes they choose, good, bad , or ugly. They also turn a profit off of this. But it is part of the world of business, and how they are able to continue to STAY in business, so that we may utilize their services. (ALL COMMENTS LISTED ABOVE ARE STRICLY BASED ON MY OPINION, AND NOT ROOTED IN ANY KIND OF FACT OR RESEARCH DONE ON MY PART.)

 

[Poker Orifice]

And once again M.P. doesn't answer any of the questions .....
Seems to be a pattern here which I'm 'observing'. If I had my post HUD running I might've spotted this sooner! Would it make me stop responding sooner? Well gee... I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I'd be able to use those Post HUD numbers to make the necessary adjustments.

 

[Weissr]

...Post HUD, lol

 

[Michael Paler]

And once again M.P. doesn't answer any of the questions .....
Seems to be a pattern here which I'm 'observing'. If I had my post HUD running I might've spotted this sooner! Would it make me stop responding sooner? Well gee... I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I'd be able to use those Post HUD numbers to make the necessary adjustments.

I have explained how it can be used over and over, here and elsewhere. If you do not know, then you need to learn more about poker so you can understand how. I mean, many do agree it gives you a distinct advantage over other players without it. Both the gathered info and some of the programs. Even the sites themselves advertise this. I simply would prefer a level playing field.

Some who use it (and to their clear advantage) despise me for pointing this out. I know you do not wise up a sucker, but I am looking at it from a point of view (level playing field). So we can agree to disagree. No need to attempt to get this thread shut down by arguing. If my opinion, that this is a form of cheating, is not agreed to by someone, why get so upset then? Feeling guilty about it?

Honestly, for a guy who thinks I am so far off base, you sure love to follow my posts and comment adversely in each and everyone. I mean, I was posting in one yesterday and you actually criticized the number of times I had posted. You counted them up and posted that I had "actually posted 20 times in this thread already".

This, from a guy with over 12k posts to a guy with fewer than 800? Come on now, lol. I do not think your post count is in danger from me anytime soon.

 

[Michael Paler]

SharkScope HUD is NOT free & its complete bs that someone can pay to what amounts to stealing my info. Its one of the main reasons I play at Bovada mostly & also why Bovada is one of the fastest growing US facing sites.
You would be charged with a Federal crime if you tried pulling the kind of things these programs do in a real Casino!! Nuff said.

+1.