How to spot a bot?

[strodawg]

I don't really think about playing with bots. I believe the only time you should worry about that if your gonna is pre flop. I feel as if the card generator leans toward stack sizes so Ive stopped going in all pre flop unless I am low stack getting eaten alive by blinds. If you can get in the hand and get to the river cheap then u should be shoving or calling shoves. I hope this helps you some how.

 

[Moonchild]

Is there any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, of the site using bots to bump the site's rake? I know that people who get screwed by PS think that it's fixed and there's some evidence that the river isn't exactly random (or used to be), but does anyone have any info about the site using bots? On PS or other sites?

I really can't believe they would even try to do that. Now I speak about pokerstars. The stakes are way too high for them, with all the sponsorships and so on. They risk way too much if their sayings about integrity aren't correct. They also explain what measures they take in being safe and honest. It's not that hard to find online.

You should be very sceptical when you read some forums with haters or paranoiacs. The most players who shout things like 'jokingstars' of 'botstars' mostly are frustrated by their losses and don't understand the importance of variance in the game. You know ... most players think they're better that average, however they mostly fool themselves. It's simple psychology. When we love something, do it alot and have some successes with it, we assume we're good in it. We fool ourselves with that.

About the dealing of cards: Well with computers nothing is truly 'random'. Every software RNG (random number generator) is an algorithm that is applied to a changing number. (usually the time, which more specifically, is the number of 100-nanosecond ticks since January 1 1601/1970/1980/2001 depending on your OS) They take this number and apply a series of math functions to (like cube root or multiply by X, things like that) which then spits out a number that seems random. (the number is altered in your/pokerstars code to give a range needed so for a deck of cards 1-52, and each card having its own numerical value) For most applications this number is random enough to not predict. But a computer wizard in theory could reverse engineer the algorithm and then predict what number it will spit out. And there have been cases of people doing this in vegas.

So now onto pokerstars. Instead of just time they use mouse movements, as well as a laser beam bouncing off a semi-opaque mirror as inputs in their RNG algorithm to determine the next card. This means in order to even attempt to predict the next card you would need to have access to the mirror at pokerstars HQ and access to your opponents computer.

Pokerstars is as close to 'random' as you could possibly get. Lots of suspicious players however forget what 'real/pro' poker players call variance.

some links: https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/
https://www.pokertube.com/poker-new...-pokerstars-protecting-integrity-of-the-games

So, that being said I really believe Pokerstars is on top when it comes to safety and integrity. They just have to much to loose (so many brands, charities, big celebrities like Neymar, Nadal, are associated with hem) and think about all the players. They're not for nothing the biggest in the field. And don't forget ... they are not only being monitored by 'the isle of man' but by so many countries where they have to get licences to be able to offer the software. F.ex. Belgium, where I come from, has really strict rules on internet gaming/gambling/selling and PS was 'proved' to be safe.

Goodnight ... no worries, no complots ...

 

[Odysseus101]

I don't really think about playing with bots. I believe the only time you should worry about that if your gonna is pre flop. I feel as if the card generator leans toward stack sizes so Ive stopped going in all pre flop unless I am low stack getting eaten alive by blinds. If you can get in the hand and get to the river cheap then u should be shoving or calling shoves. I hope this helps you some how.

I've observed that too, the river tends to favour the short stack. But maybe I only notice it when I get burned on the river when big stack, or when I suck out on the river in short stack. I'd have to make a consistent study of it. I'm sure that some have, perhaps recently. That would only be a bot issue if the short stack was a site bot and the site literally robbed me by dealing to itself, that's a separate issue from the draw being truly random or not.

 

[Moonchild]

I've observed that too, the river tends to favour the short stack. But maybe I only notice it when I get burned on the river when big stack, or when I suck out on the river in short stack. I'd have to make a consistent study of it. I'm sure that some have, perhaps recently. That would only be a bot issue if the short stack was a site bot and the site literally robbed me by dealing to itself, that's a separate issue from the draw being truly random or not.

I just posted a big reply about the randomness above, but what I wanted to say on this specific thing: that you think the river tends to favour the short shack. Again psychology, we tend to remember the cases where we felt wronged. We forget about the variance and we get suspicious.

• When we think we're on top and we win the hand -> rightful
• when we think we're on top and loose -> suspicion

That's why psychology/mental stableness is so important in poker, to avoid us getting mad/suspicious/tilting and so on ...

 

[Odysseus101]

I just posted a big reply about the randomness above, but what I wanted to say on this specific thing: that you think the river tends to favour the short shack. Again psychology, we tend to remember the cases where we felt wronged. We forget about the variance and we get suspicious.

• When we think we're on top and we win the hand -> rightful
• when we think we're on top and loose -> suspicion

That's why psychology/mental stableness is so important in poker, to avoid us getting mad/suspicious/tilting and so on ...

No argument there, it's why anecdotal evidence is utterly meaningless in such things. We tend to remember when we "get screwed" much more than when we win when "we should have".

 

[Zokac71]

I think there are a lot of bots on poker sites, There are no changes to the game, no delays, and no talks on Catu ..... Time for the game and thinking is always the same ... etc .....

 

[Moonchild]

I think there are a lot of bots on poker sites, There are no changes to the game, no delays, and no talks on Catu ..... Time for the game and thinking is always the same ... etc .....

What poker sites are you talking about? I never see that kind of things on Pokerstars. And IMO no chatting doesn't mean anything. I don't have real trust in smaller, weird pokersites, but you can advise yourself well online on quality and safety sites.

 

[catchitfool]

ive never played with a bot. i wouldnt know.

 

[strodawg]

replying back

I've observed that too, the river tends to favour the short stack. But maybe I only notice it when I get burned on the river when big stack, or when I suck out on the river in short stack. I'd have to make a consistent study of it. I'm sure that some have, perhaps recently. That would only be a bot issue if the short stack was a site bot and the site literally robbed me by dealing to itself, that's a separate issue from the draw being truly random or not.

I have been studying it this past month watching every freeroll ive played. Its actually the best toury to study it. we lose nothing and every one shoves the whole time so you get to see so many combinations. I play on black chip poker. Its only quaility site Ive found USA friendly. The sites not over loaded but it does its job. Ive seen so many bad beats based on stack sizes. There is an unfair share of A10s+ holding up but not as much as they should. Small stacks will runner runner, flop it out. win on a low pair aginst overs, ect. But believing in that theory has improved my play and kept me out of some nasty situations.

 

[antonis32123]

You might find interesting this (how stupid they play some?? times)
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...emand-freerolls-bots-275858/post-2996179.html

and if you have time read all the thread

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...llar-demand-freerolls-bots-275858/index5.html

 

[karl coakley]

There are 2 types of players that worry about bots:

1. Players that are not very good.

2. Players that do not understand what a bot is and can do.

It really is that simple. A bot can play ABC poker, that is it. If you google it and spend the time to really read, you will understand how bad they really are and how difficult it really is to write the code for a bot.

For example, you can really only write a bot code that only plays AK 1 way. You can tell it to raise and re-raise at a certain position, but that is it. You can't tell it to limp with AK, smooth call, or adjust in any other way to the play of the table/player. You can't tell it to call 89s against a player because he is super loose or tight. It can only play 89s 1 way.

Simply put, it cannot play a dynamic game of poker which is really required to win.

A forum to start reading if you are interested... gives some info, sites that are supported, ect...

http://www.bonusbots.com/support/

A second note, bots don't play on Stars. It is well noted that Stars ALWAYS bans bots through their security. I do not know why they catch the bots, but every bot site specifically says to stay away from Stars because you will get banned and lose your money.

 

[Odysseus101]

Thanks for that, Karl. I'll definitely look at that. It's a very interesting subject to me.

 

[Moonchild]

You might find interesting this (how stupid they play some?? times)
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...emand-freerolls-bots-275858/post-2996179.html

and if you have time read all the thread

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...llar-demand-freerolls-bots-275858/index5.html

Hmmm, interesting and rather alarming. I haven't read the whole thread already, but I read the post you were showing, the original one and some replies. I must say that it's scary, especially because the site, Americas Cardroom, has good to excellent reviews online.

Thank you for sharing this post. I'm gonna take time to read the whole thread and investigate some more. That being said, we should stay careful in both ways: being paranoia vs. feeling safe. Once you're convinced on one both, people can get a tunnel vision and only see their point proven. But it's worth having another look at. See u later*