Weird players on PS

[fundiver199]

While this crazy crap happens more online, what kills me is the times I have seen it live. I have seen so crazy things happen in both cash games and tournaments and while most happen in lowed limits or buy ins, I have seen in in $1K and$1,100 buy in events too.

In my 1st WSOP event a guy called my 4 bet jam with JTo, It was not a math call and he was not that short it just came off as i double or go home play. He went home.

In a WPT deepstack main I was in I saw a guy do something similar with some crap hand on the flop. No draw and no pair. and something like 9 high.

Sometime people just donk to donk I guess.

And at the end of the day anyone, who have paid the tournament fee or won an entry in some way, are entitled to play, as they want. We should just be happy, there are players, who are willing to get their chips in with bad equity, regardless what reason they have for this.

 

[puzzlefish]

And at the end of the day anyone, who have paid the tournament fee or won an entry in some way, are entitled to play, as they want. We should just be happy, there are players, who are willing to get their chips in with bad equity, regardless what reason they have for this.

Anyone, including robot players?

 

[puzzlefish]

You can rationalize almost anything if you try hard enough to do it. But in doing so, you effectively pass up on trying to find the truth. It's just not something that sits right with me, even if it is the go-to for many other players.

 

[fundiver199]

Anyone, including robot players?

Probably not a lot of robots playing in live events like the wsop, which luvepoker was talking about

 

[fundiver199]

Is anyone in here who ever experienced something similar

Depends on what you mean by "similar". Have I seen bad players getting lucky? Sure. But never anything as crazy as, what you are telling here. But of course I have only played 1-2 million hands on PS, so maybe I will eventually see it, if I continue playing there. There are not that many bad players on PS though, not even at low stakes (5-16,5$), which I mainly play. There were more back in 2020 due to COVID-19 lockdowns. So maybe its not quite coincidental, that this happened during the blowout series, which was held in december 2020.

I have kind of said it already, but in my opinion you are overthinking this. If your story is even true, which I am somewhat sceptical about, then it was just a bad beat, and thats all, there is to it. Bad beats are part of the game, and while it is obviously pretty insane to lose with 99,7% equity, its also annoying to lose with 80-90% equity, which will happen far more often. You can still find the hand history in your tracker and share it, if you want to.

 

[Ollafus]

Depends on what you mean by "similar". Have I seen bad players getting lucky? Sure. But never anything as crazy as, what you are telling here. But of course I have only played 1-2 million hands on PS, so maybe I will eventually see it, if I continue playing there. There are not that many bad players on PS though, not even at low stakes (5-16,5$), which I mainly play. There were more back in 2020 due to COVID-19 lockdowns. So maybe its not quite coincidental, that this happened during the blowout series, which was held in december 2020.

I have kind of said it already, but in my opinion you are overthinking this. If your story is even true, which I am somewhat sceptical about, then it was just a bad beat, and thats all, there is to it. Bad beats are part of the game, and while it is obviously pretty insane to lose with 99,7% equity, its also annoying to lose with 80-90% equity, which will happen far more often. You can still find the hand history in your tracker and share it, if you want to.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Really appreciate it. I have no reason to lie, especially cause I am NOT complaining about a bad beat... I just found weird the fact that a guy was shoving crap and every time he ended up by having the absolute nuts by the river.

That's all.

Someone asked me if I have the hand history for that tournament... unfortunately I don't. I don't know if I can download it from PS?

 

[fundiver199]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Really appreciate it. I have no reason to lie, especially cause I am NOT complaining about a bad beat... I just found weird the fact that a guy was shoving crap and every time he ended up by having the absolute nuts by the river.

I think, someone else have already given a pretty plausible explanation for, what happened. Apart from the possibility, he was just a degenerate gambler with to much money, he might have gotten into the event by winning a ticket, but not having time to play it. So he late reg and go for a "go strong or go home" approach fully knowing, that this is negative EV. But its less negative EV than letting the ticket expire or register and then let himself blind away by sitting out.

Then when he got lucky and build a big stack, he perhaps found some time to play anyway, and presumably reverted towards more normal play? Calling a shove with just 6 high and backdoor draws seem pretty weird even for a splashy player, but this is where, the actual hand history would have been usefull. Maybe your stack was so short, that he felt committed to the pot? Or maybe he misread the board and thought, he flopped a pair?

Jamming AA on AA5 is also not a good play, especially if stacks were deep. Its a hand, we almost always want to slowplay, because we have the board completely crushed, and its difficult for our opponent to have anything, they can pay us off with, if we start building a big pot. This is part of the reason why, my gut instinct to your post was "yeah right cool story bro". But if you say, it really happened, I believe you

Someone asked me if I have the hand history for that tournament... unfortunately I don't. I don't know if I can download it from PS?

Probably not now 2 years later. I think, you can ask support to send your entire hand history from the site and then import the hands to a tracker. But obviously not worth it just to share a bad beat hand here. For people like myself, who use a tracker, hands are automatically imported by the tracker. So if I want to, I can always go back to a tournament, I played 2 years ago, and look at every single hand in the replayer.

 

[fundiver199]

If I don't question the honesty of PS when it comes to RNG, i really have my doubts after this kind of encounters...

Have ignored this statement so far, but ok lets get to it. When people watch other players make bad calls and then get lucky (and that runner-runner straight flush certainly takes the price), it often lead to several different thoughts:

1) Maybe the RnG is rigged to favour the bad players?
2) Maybe the bad players are "house accounts" put in to rob off the real players?
3) Maybe the bad players are cheating and have found a way of knowing, what cards are coming?

Starting from the bottom of the list, there have been many cases in both online and live poker, where someone had found a way to know their opponents cards. Like Ultimate Bet / Absolute Poker (POTRIPPER) and Stones gambling Hall (Mike Postle). But there has never been a case, where it has been proven or even made likely, that someone had found a way to know, what cards are coming.

Also why would that even be determined, before the card is needed? If only one player pay to see the flop, and everyone else fold, the hand is over, and the flop dont need to be dealt. So why would an RNG even be constructed to determine the 5 community cards, before preflop action is over? Or the turn and river, before the flop action is over?

In top of that its almost inpossible to imagine a way, where an online player could get hold on this information without also knowing their opponents cards. So it would not even make a difference. Knowing your opponents cards gives you more than enough advantage already to absolutely crush them.

In fact you need to be carefull to not deviate to much from ordinary play, because that might raise suspicion. Which is exactly, what eventually brought down both POTRIPPER and Mike Postle. So the real concern is not, if someone know, what cards are coming. The real concern is, if someone know, what cards you have. And lets just say, that I am confident, pokerstars have better security than Ultimate Bet or Stones Gambling Hall.

As for the other two theories, they are essentially variations of the "online poker is rigged" theory. And no need to repeat that discussion once again. If you go in the "bad beats and vents" section, there is a "rigged megathread" with 14.000 replies in it. So everything, that is to be said about that subject, has been said there already.

 

[MattRyder]

I see this sort of “weird” play all the time. I don’t think there’s anything going on other than the obvious, but it certainly does “look” suspicious.

That said, straight flushes do happen. Most of them start with pretty weak hands. Many weak players will always play any two suited cards, especially connectors and gappers. And quads happen. Every once in a while they’re going to happen in the same hand.

This guy’s strategy was simply to start late, shove every hand and hope for the best. People wouldn’t do it if it didn’t pay off sometimes. And I’ve seen it pay off more than a few times.

So it’s not surprising that two hours later he would play that hand that way.

 

[kringoo]

i've seen

i've seen
this a lot
but i see
the worst hand
this is sad and i don't talk now and then very often

 

[deputat]

I think everyone who has played poker for a long time has experienced something like this. It's very annoying when you then lose against such a person and are thrown out of the tournament. But you can also say that this time he was luckier than me and then ask yourself whether you did everything right. These strange people usually have little idea of real poker and mainly win with luck and listen to their gut feeling. You can't do anything about luck, just like you can't do anything about bad luck. It's always a shame when you lose, and when you lose to people like that, it can be a bit annoying. But that's poker too, it's not just the better one who wins, sometimes it's the one who just had more luck.

I think who plays to raise the bankroll and know which strategy to make profit this person will not write about luck

 

[puzzlefish]

.. But there has never been a case, where it has been proven or even made likely, that someone had found a way to know, what cards are coming.

Also why would that even be determined, before the card is needed? If only one player pay to see the flop, and everyone else fold, the hand is over, and the flop dont need to be dealt. So why would an RNG even be constructed to determine the 5 community cards, before preflop action is over? Or the turn and river, before the flop action is over?

In top of that its almost inpossible to imagine a way, where an online player could get hold on this information without also knowing their opponents cards. So it would not even make a difference. Knowing your opponents cards gives you more than enough advantage already to absolutely crush them.

Ok, let's look at this for the sake of being objective. One possibility is that an RNG pre-parses the entirety of the hand all the way from handing out the hole cards, to dealing flop, turn, and river. This information could then be made available to select players somehow.

The second possibility is that an RNG functions in a semi-random manner. In this sense, the RNG does certain things at certain trigger points. If a player catches on to this, they may be able to correctly predict certain outcomes, for example player A wins a hand against player B and player C will always lose to player B on the next hand regardless of what cards they are dealt.

The third possibility, again with an imperfect RNG, is that certain players get stuck in a favourable or unfavourable variance mode. Hot and cold seats, for example, where a player just can't lose or can't win regardless of what cards are dealt.

So essentially there are possible cases where knowing the exact cards is not necessary if the outcomes are known. This doesn't even require an RNG to be rigged. It just needs to not be perfectly random.

In fact you need to be carefull to not deviate to much from ordinary play, because that might raise suspicion. Which is exactly, what eventually brought down both POTRIPPER and Mike Postle. So the real concern is not, if someone know, what cards are coming. The real concern is, if someone know, what cards you have. And lets just say, that I am confident, PokerStars have better security than Ultimate Bet or Stones Gambling Hall.

This is the interesting part of the discussion, in that players who would be actively and successfully exploiting an RNG would need to do so in a manner that does not raise suspicion.

 

[hilary antonik filho]

I've seen and witnessed so many absurdities in PS, that I lost count, sometimes I even think about manipulation, but I try to believe it's just luck of some players, yesterday 05/31, a player allinn with a 3 and 9 of different suits , against a pair KK, incredible, 33 and 9 fell, this player entered with few minutes to the end of registration. I don't know what happened to him, I went to another table

 

[puzzlefish]

I've seen and witnessed so many absurdities in PS, that I lost count, sometimes I even think about manipulation, but I try to believe it's just luck of some players, yesterday 05/31, a player allinn with a 3 and 9 of different suits , against a pair KK, incredible, 33 and 9 fell, this player entered with few minutes to the end of registration. I don't know what happened to him, I went to another table

That's part of the mystery, in that these players often teleport between tables so nobody gets to see them for more than a few hands.

 

[scuxbr]

I'd call it luck, as I've had days when I could play with anything, it always hit.
could it be a 'bug'? I don't know.

 

[wavetune]

I've seen this often and not only on PS, I can't say that it's a common phenomenon, but you can get up especially in low-limit tournaments or in freerolls․ My recent example was when a player did all hands all in and, oddly enough, he did it well. He won 2 times from me with bad hands, in a tournament where there were 3 tables left, maybe he was making fun of everyone or in a hurry