DaFrench1
Visionary
Silver Level
Suspect account names on UB
According to trambopoline at 2+2:
Ilike2win, utakeit2, flatbroke33, sleeplesss, nymobser, nopaddles, nionio and easychamp
A later post suggests that nionio changed his name to nymobser and that nopaddles changed name to sleeplesss. And both changes were made on the same day!
According to trambopoline at 2+2:
Ilike2win, utakeit2, flatbroke33, sleeplesss, nymobser, nopaddles, nionio and easychamp
A later post suggests that nionio changed his name to nymobser and that nopaddles changed name to sleeplesss. And both changes were made on the same day!
narizblanco
Rock Star
Silver Level
KingCurtis
Legend
Silver Level
i wonder if PH even knows what is going on or if he even knows that someone is imitating him....I guess if I was him i wouldnt care as long as i get the check in the mail....how well is UB doing anyways I mean compared to PS and FT it cant be doing that well
Emperor IX
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
This is through the link but anyone who dooesn't want to go through it take a look at this:
wolfdog2121 posts the small blind of $25.
mrwonkaman posts the big blind of $50.
NioNio: -- --
wolfdog2121: -- --
mrwonkaman: -- --
trambopoline: Ah Ad
Johnny_Hustle: -- --
OhioFilmmaker: -- --
Pre-flop:
trambopoline raises to $175. Johnny_Hustle folds.
OhioFilmmaker folds. NioNio calls. wolfdog2121
folds. mrwonkaman folds.
Flop (board: Ts 5h 9d):
trambopoline bets $325. NioNio calls.
Turn (board: Ts 5h 9d 8d):
trambopoline checks. NioNio bets $1075.
trambopoline calls.
River (board: Ts 5h 9d 8d Ac):
trambopoline checks. NioNio checks.
Showdown:
trambopoline shows Ah Ad.
trambopoline has Ah Ad Ts 9d Ac: three aces.
NioNio mucks cards.
(NioNio has 8h 5c.)
wolfdog2121 posts the small blind of $25.
mrwonkaman posts the big blind of $50.
NioNio: -- --
wolfdog2121: -- --
mrwonkaman: -- --
trambopoline: Ah Ad
Johnny_Hustle: -- --
OhioFilmmaker: -- --
Pre-flop:
trambopoline raises to $175. Johnny_Hustle folds.
OhioFilmmaker folds. NioNio calls. wolfdog2121
folds. mrwonkaman folds.
Flop (board: Ts 5h 9d):
trambopoline bets $325. NioNio calls.
Turn (board: Ts 5h 9d 8d):
trambopoline checks. NioNio bets $1075.
trambopoline calls.
River (board: Ts 5h 9d 8d Ac):
trambopoline checks. NioNio checks.
Showdown:
trambopoline shows Ah Ad.
trambopoline has Ah Ad Ts 9d Ac: three aces.
NioNio mucks cards.
(NioNio has 8h 5c.)
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
lol Just goes to show that even when you know your opponents hole cards you still get sucked out on. River will kill you every time.
MDTed
Legend
Silver Level
I play at UB and I like it there. To me their software is the best, you can miniview the tables and fit a large number of them on the screen at once.
Since I never play higher than .25/.50 NL I think I can rest assured that there's no "superuser" wasting time playing at my levels.
Personally I think there's this same loophole in every site's software and that as time goes on, whether true or not, it's going to come out that someone has done this on almost every site out there.
I've also never had a problem getting money out of UB.
So it's troublesome that this exists but I'll wait until I see something in a court of law before I jump on any bandwagon.
Since I never play higher than .25/.50 NL I think I can rest assured that there's no "superuser" wasting time playing at my levels.
Personally I think there's this same loophole in every site's software and that as time goes on, whether true or not, it's going to come out that someone has done this on almost every site out there.
I've also never had a problem getting money out of UB.
So it's troublesome that this exists but I'll wait until I see something in a court of law before I jump on any bandwagon.
DaFrench1
Visionary
Silver Level
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
is that you Mark Seif?
MDTed
Legend
Silver Level
I think if that were me that I could afford to play higher than 25 cent no limit holdem. I think I should be grossly insulted though just to be even jokingly compared to such a person, assuming that he can be referred to as a person at all.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
why? he said pretty much the same thing that you did in trying to wash over the AP issue by saying that it "could happen to any site". for a start that's incorrect as Stars for one doesn't hold the potential for a 'superuser' account, and secondly it's beside the point. it didn't happen on any site, it happened on AP (and now UB).
i'm just curious as to why you're defending a site which contains prevalent elements of staff who are clearly (a) incompetent, or (b) corrupt.
i'm just curious as to why you're defending a site which contains prevalent elements of staff who are clearly (a) incompetent, or (b) corrupt.
MDTed
Legend
Silver Level
How do you know for sure that Stars doesn't have the potential for those accounts? Are you taking the word of a corporate entity? We all know just how honest most of those are. Has it been confirmed by some independent agency? It's pretty obvious they are able to see all the cards at a table, they do it in the Sunday Million final table. What makes you think there's no ability to do that outside of that one tournament final table?
I'd like to be able to say for certain that there's no chance of any dishonesty at any of the sites I've played on. To be honest the collusion among players is for more worrying to me than the superusers since it happens at every level of play. AIM/MSN/YAHOO or whatever chats make it way too easy for them to exhange hand information.
If it did happen then acknowledge it, pay things back and move on after closing the holes. Nothing done on a computer system is going to be 100% safe from deliberate malicious behavior.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
there's a difference between being able to replay an event with holecards up days after the event and having the potential for superusers. DUCY?
and yes, stars have said their software doesn't have the capability and yes, i believe them. they've earned my trust over two and a bit years of playing there and never having had a bad experience or even heard of a bad experience from a credible source.
if you choose not to trust them, that's fine. it just amuses me that you've commented so positively on Ultimatebet, where superuser stuff has been proven, and yet have been somewhat more negative by impication about other, more evidently legitimate sites.
DaFrench1
Visionary
Silver Level
Originally Posted by Josem
Hey folks,
A new picture for you to look at:
The point in the upper-right corner is the UB alleged cheater.
Some facts about the graph:
-There are 870 "normal" players from a variety of sites and limits
-Each of those other players have at least 2,500 hands logged on them
-The graph is in big blinds/100, not PokerTracker's big bets/100.
-The mean bb/100 win rate is 1.528 bb/100
-The standard deviation is 14.08 bb/100
-The alleged UB cheater is winning at around 10 standard deviations above the mean
-The confessed AP cheater was winning at around 15 standard deviations above the mean
I think that 10 standard deviations is something in the order of winning a 1-in-a-million lottery three or four times consecutively - although I'd prefer if a maths expert could be a little more clear.
Hey folks,
A new picture for you to look at:
The point in the upper-right corner is the UB alleged cheater.
Some facts about the graph:
-There are 870 "normal" players from a variety of sites and limits
-Each of those other players have at least 2,500 hands logged on them
-The graph is in big blinds/100, not PokerTracker's big bets/100.
-The mean bb/100 win rate is 1.528 bb/100
-The standard deviation is 14.08 bb/100
-The alleged UB cheater is winning at around 10 standard deviations above the mean
-The confessed AP cheater was winning at around 15 standard deviations above the mean
I think that 10 standard deviations is something in the order of winning a 1-in-a-million lottery three or four times consecutively - although I'd prefer if a maths expert could be a little more clear.
T
trambopoline
Rising Star
Bronze Level
FAKE HELLMUTH EMAILS
Hi everyone, this is trambopoline from 2p2. As you know ive been a pretty big part in this whole investigation. I am requesting one thing from this post, or your forum in general: PLEASE DELETE THE EMAILS THAT HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED TO BE FALSE. There is no need for this email, which has been confirmed 100% false, to be spread anywhere else on the internet. Follow the thread located on twoplustwo for the most recent up to date news.
Suspicious Plays on UB 25/50 and 50/100 - Two Plus Two Forums
Hi everyone, this is trambopoline from 2p2. As you know ive been a pretty big part in this whole investigation. I am requesting one thing from this post, or your forum in general: PLEASE DELETE THE EMAILS THAT HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED TO BE FALSE. There is no need for this email, which has been confirmed 100% false, to be spread anywhere else on the internet. Follow the thread located on twoplustwo for the most recent up to date news.
Suspicious Plays on UB 25/50 and 50/100 - Two Plus Two Forums
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
It looks as though the "investigators" at 2+2 are still a few days away from sifting through the hand histories to provide conclusive proof, but the common theme on the thread is the close proximity of Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet's operations - not surprising when Ultimate Bet are owned by Absolute Poker!
kmslogic
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I believe UltimateBet was purchased by Absolute Poker in the last couple years and existed on its own for quite some time before that (own staff, own software, etc). That makes the logical jump that AP cheated and therefore UB cheated a bit thin.
That's not to say there wasn't cheating in this case.
That's not to say there wasn't cheating in this case.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I don't think anyone has explicitly said "Absolute Poker are cheats so Ultimate Bet must be cheats". The problem that I have had from day one with this is that Cardschat has dumped Absolute Poker due to the superuser scandal, but continue to endorse Ultimate Bet, who are owned by Absolute Poker. The fact that Ultimate Bet happen to be the second company implicated in superuser accounts, is coincidence, but when they are licensed / regulated / checked by the same people that failed with Absolute Poker maybe not a huge surprise.
Seems like it's business as usual at both AP and UB, all pokersites have to do is wait out a problem for a few weeks, and it will disappear.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Once upon a time, I was a computer technician. A Network Specialist. I would troubleshoot systems. In the course of my duties I found it remarkably easy to get system access with complete admin rights. Usually the first thing I would do is to create a new user with complete admin rights. At the time my logic was that I wouldn't have to bother getting that access every time I showed up. Very few admin types gave it any thought. They gave me the access I needed and walked away.
I left that field 10 years ago, and have forgotten almost everything I would need to access those systems. I would guess it wouldn't take me long to blunder onto my old logins, but the point is that many folks could do similar things at opportune times. A worker sees the admins terminal connected and unattended, and it only takes a few seconds to create a new user with admin rights.
In some systems, even admin rights are not complete tho. Rights are typically not granted even to admins to change code, or system files, nor is complete access granted to system utilities.
The possibility exists in any and every system. I would be suspect of any system purporting to have no back doors. There is almost no way to guarantee such a thing.
Vigilance is our friend.
I left that field 10 years ago, and have forgotten almost everything I would need to access those systems. I would guess it wouldn't take me long to blunder onto my old logins, but the point is that many folks could do similar things at opportune times. A worker sees the admins terminal connected and unattended, and it only takes a few seconds to create a new user with admin rights.
In some systems, even admin rights are not complete tho. Rights are typically not granted even to admins to change code, or system files, nor is complete access granted to system utilities.
The possibility exists in any and every system. I would be suspect of any system purporting to have no back doors. There is almost no way to guarantee such a thing.
Vigilance is our friend.
T
trambopoline
Rising Star
Bronze Level
UB issued this statement 2 days ago...
ULTIMATEBET INTERIM STATEMENT
Contact: Press@ultimatebet.com
Montreal, canada (March 6, 2008) – UltimateBet (UB), one of the ten largest online poker cardrooms, today issued the following interim statement with respect to allegations of unfair play on its site.
“On January 12, 2008, UltimateBet was alerted to allegations that a player with the online handle “NioNio” exhibited abnormally high winning statistics and was accused of having an unfair advantage during play. These allegations were made both directly to UltimateBet by concerned players and the KGC, and indirectly through several web forums. The allegations also included reports of suspicious activity concerning the deletion of the NioNio account and other accounts that may have been related to this scheme.
“We immediately launched an extensive inquiry involving an independent third-party expert to review hundreds of thousands of hand histories, all of which were promptly locked down and made available to this expert. The initial findings of our third-party expert confirm that the NioNio account’s winning statistics were indeed abnormal, and we have expanded the investigation to look into whether an unfair advantage existed, how such a scheme might have been perpetrated, and whether additional accounts beyond those of NioNio were involved.
“UltimateBet is in regular communications and contact with its regulatory authority, The Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC), and will continue to cooperate fully with that body.
“UltimateBet is determined to complete a full and thorough investigation. We pride ourselves on providing a safe, secure playing environment for our customers. The investigation has proven to be extremely complex and, therefore, has been more extensive and taken much longer than initially expected. We continue to aggressively pursue the matter and will communicate the findings of our full investigation to our regulatory authority and to our customer base as soon as practicable.”
This is pretty good news for us I guess. It makes it much more unlikely that UB will try and let this 'investigation' ride out until the tension dies down so they can just sweep this under the carpet.
ULTIMATEBET INTERIM STATEMENT
Contact: Press@ultimatebet.com
Montreal, canada (March 6, 2008) – UltimateBet (UB), one of the ten largest online poker cardrooms, today issued the following interim statement with respect to allegations of unfair play on its site.
“On January 12, 2008, UltimateBet was alerted to allegations that a player with the online handle “NioNio” exhibited abnormally high winning statistics and was accused of having an unfair advantage during play. These allegations were made both directly to UltimateBet by concerned players and the KGC, and indirectly through several web forums. The allegations also included reports of suspicious activity concerning the deletion of the NioNio account and other accounts that may have been related to this scheme.
“We immediately launched an extensive inquiry involving an independent third-party expert to review hundreds of thousands of hand histories, all of which were promptly locked down and made available to this expert. The initial findings of our third-party expert confirm that the NioNio account’s winning statistics were indeed abnormal, and we have expanded the investigation to look into whether an unfair advantage existed, how such a scheme might have been perpetrated, and whether additional accounts beyond those of NioNio were involved.
“UltimateBet is in regular communications and contact with its regulatory authority, The Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC), and will continue to cooperate fully with that body.
“UltimateBet is determined to complete a full and thorough investigation. We pride ourselves on providing a safe, secure playing environment for our customers. The investigation has proven to be extremely complex and, therefore, has been more extensive and taken much longer than initially expected. We continue to aggressively pursue the matter and will communicate the findings of our full investigation to our regulatory authority and to our customer base as soon as practicable.”
This is pretty good news for us I guess. It makes it much more unlikely that UB will try and let this 'investigation' ride out until the tension dies down so they can just sweep this under the carpet.