dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
You're asking to prove a negative, which isn't possible no matter the subject.
Is it possible? Sure it's possible, there are employees who have access to hole cards from the server side. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to investigate cheating, or broadcast their pokerstars.tv coverage of online events with hole cards exposed. However PS and FT have always taken security very seriously, and I'm certain they have safeguards in place and internal audits that would quickly uncover anything, especially in light of the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet scandals. Same as with any other financial institution or other corporation where employees have access to highly sensitive information or large amounts of funds -- the controls in place are ridiculously tight and make it extremely difficult for rogue employees to get away, at least for long, with any funny business. And as was pointed out, the poker community itself is pretty quick to pickup on when things just don't look right.
People throw around the terms "superuser" and reference the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet scandals without really knowing or understanding what went on and how. If you realize how it happened, you realize how unlikely it is to ever happen at PS or FT, or even again at Cereus for that matter.
First, Absolute Poker's superuser scandal arose from a consultant who had full access to their backend systems. This backdoor access was presumably for support and investigative purposes, but this consultant (player known as POTRIPPER) abused it for his own gain. It was suspected that he shared this access with friends, but I don't know that it was ever proven.
Next, Ultimatebet's problems started with a scam perpetrated by some software developers employed by the original owners, Excapsa Software, who inserted some secret backdoor code into their system to broadcast hole card data in real time as hands were being played. Russ Hamilton (a wsop ME winner) was employed as a consultant and is widely considered to be the ringleader of a group who used this for cheating.
By the time the scandals emerged, Ultimatebet was under new ownership (Tokwiro Enterprises), so from their perspective they were innocent. They audited their systems, found the secret backdoor code and removed it. However many consider them both negligent in not doing their due diligence on auditing their newly acquired systems up front, and also in their repeated denials and misinformation campaigns following the scandals. Combine that with a few lesser software/security snafus afterwards (the infamous Phil Hellmuth hand glitch, the weakness in their encryption protocol, the lying about their encryption being industry standard when it was really a home-grown simple XOR algorithm, etc.) and a pattern of a negligent operation emerges. So the original owners were (or employed) blatant crooks, while the subsequent owners were lazy, negligent, deniers who couldn't be bothered to clean up the previous owners' mess until the chickens came home to roost.
The kicker for me is, I simply HATE their software. As in, it completely tilted me every time I played there.
I simply have no reason to go back, when you have the better experience and track record of solid sites like PS and FT, whom I trust far more than I ever would the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet portfolio. Too little, too late, IMO...
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onemorechance
live free or die
Silver Level
Great post. Just wanted to add that there were more superusers than just POTRIPPER, more than just the one rogue employee/owner/consultant/whatever you wanna call Hamilton.
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dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
I assumed there were more than POTRIPPER for the AP scandal, I just didn't recall how widespread or if any others were positively ID'd.
The UB thing with Hamilton was widely known to involve a bunch of people, as I said he was considered the ring-leader and coordinated money transfers and game info between the cheaters. I think he helped shield them or cover their tracks too.
kmixer
Legend
Silver Level
Why though. Do you have proof they are still cheating? The same players that found them out before should be able to still do it right?
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onemorechance
live free or die
Silver Level
Does the fact that they've been caught either downright cheating or just being phenomenally shady under two 'different' owners not make you very suspicious about blindly trusting them a third time?
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
It would *highly* unlikely that they would dump their US players, which comprise a significant majority of their revenue base. To spend that kind of money on an acquisition and then cut-off probably 70% of revenue? Not happening.
That said, I'd just as soon they did, maybe that would kill them off. IMO those sites need to die and new ones spring up from their ashes. I think that'll be the only way they'll regain any trust.
8Michael3
Rock Star
Silver Level
After reading the user aggreement on Full Tilt they mention that in the design of the system no superuser accounts were made possible because of the scandals at the other sites. They do say that iof someone could see your cards then that is your own computers security being breached. So FT is very certain that it is impossible for them to have a superuser account.
Not sure about PS-I dont play there that often to have read the user agreement fully.
B
bigjoker66
Visionary
Silver Level
No I don't have proof other than their encryption was easy to break up until a few months ago, and that was after they said they did a FULL security check and they were secure.
They just have too many strikes against them to trust.
I do have a small amount of money there, not sure what I am going to do with it, but I think its too expensive to get off, although some money is better than no money. I haven't played UB since the last security issue, and before that only about once or twice a month.
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
Please tell me how the "security issue" directly affected you?
What sites do you play on that are safe?
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onemorechance
live free or die
Silver Level
Please tell me what ****ing difference it makes?
eberetta1
Legend
Loyaler
Thanks for the heads up. I did not hear about this sale. Yeah, don't really play there as much as I could. Have about 800 points towards the 2200 I need for a Texas Hold em DVD set I want at AP. Hopefully new owners aren't buying a dying horse. Did the new owners already own any pokersites prior to this purchase???
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bigjoker66
Visionary
Silver Level
It didn't, other than it was the final straw that made me decide not to play there any more.
I don't have to be directly affected by something for it to influence me.
My point is the sale does not really change anything.
The software is still the same.
The programmers are the same.
For all we know it's just a sale from the current owners to themselves with a front company, and/or a way to get some cash out of the company into their pockets.
I don't trust them. Why should I?
I play at full tilt poker, Pokerstars, and bodog.