Poker Legends Sued for Robot Fraud

[Charzr]

The biggest names in poker are being sued by two people who claim they were defrauded on an online poker site.

Lary Kennedy and Greg Omotoy claim they opened an account at fulltiltpoker.com and -- as luck would have it -- they amassed winnings of more than $80,000.

The famous poker defendants who own the site -- including Chris "Jesus" Ferguson, Howard Lederer, Phil Ivey and Mike Matusow -- allegedly accused the plaintiffs of using an automated play functions called "robots" instead of playing the game themselves. Since using robots violates Full Tilt's rules, the site's owners confiscated more than $80,000.

There are other gripes as well in the lawsuit, filed today in L.A. County Superior Court, including an allegation that fulltilitpoker.com manipulates the game through the use of robots of its own so it becomes more a game of luck than skill which is outlawed in California.

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http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/02/chris...il-ivey-mike-matusow-full-tilt-poker-lawsuit/

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What do you guys think?? I'm on the "innocent until proven guilty" wagon!!

 

[RichKo]

If FT has proof of them using bots, then take their cash and sue them back. And if not give them their money...simple as that. I think if FT says they were using bots, they will have the goods.

 

[SavagePenguin]

If two people opened (and used) one account that violates Full Tilt's terms of service.

If were not using a bot and they legitimately made $80k wouldn't that be enough proof that it is a game of skill?

 

[jaycism]

i sometimes wonder how the "F" i can have so many bad beats in a day. if this is correct true than i see why lol

 

[StormRaven]

If FT pulled the money, they had cause. Plenty of others have won much more than that on a regular basis and haven't any problems at FT. I suspect the suit against FT is crap made up by the cheaters in an attempt to get their money back.

 

[chapstick]

I didn't know Phil Ivey owned a piece of the site... But I'm sure there are "bots" playing online...

 

[PattyR]

i dunno..seems iffy to me..bots are out there but im not sure

hopefully everything works out

 

[AAChipMagnet]

To what end will people go to cheat? I'm sure FTP has proof. If they don't, I'm sure they will pay back the money.

 

[FREEROLLSFTW]

lol tmz.com, i would say they are most likely guilty FT is pretty much got control of everything. No comment on FT using bots. Didnt know matusow and ferguson owns a part of the site, probably because Ive heard rumors that matusow is broke.

 

[Grossberger]

Ok this might be a "stupid" question but......... how can you sue someone over something that is Illegal in the US???? I mean it's like trying to sue someone for stealing $100,000 worth of your Cocaine or buying some crack from a neighbor and then sueing them cause you got addicted.

 

[Tonky666]

saw this on another site too,really amazing how advanced technology is now!!

i mean 80k alot and maybe ftp jelous,maybe they really used robots!

maybe ftp has robots too!!

we will know in the near future

 

[coolnout]

It's a pretty shady story. Only thing interesting is the person was apparently cleared for botting at pokerstars. I gotta imagine FTP has some clear evidence or this case would have been settled.

 

[Ebaum]

I wouldn't be surprised at ALL that FT uses bots. I play on 5 other sites and I've yet to see, in 2 years playing, bad beats like I see at FT.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that's noticed this.

 

[Ebaum]

It's a pretty shady story. Only thing interesting is the person was apparently cleared for botting at pokerstars. I gotta imagine FTP has some clear evidence or this case would have been settled.

Cleared for botting? As in they got the OK from Pokerstars to bot?
Now that's hard to believe.

 

[drgilbert4]

There is no doubt that bots exist... they don't make very good reads, but they play a very steady, tight game. They are very predictable and can be beaten by a good player. They can win over time by just playing the odds.

 

[tonytom1105]

I play many other sites and I cannot win at FullTilt. I am not losing much though.
I keep coming back playing FT several times but it screws up my mind with excessive and frequent bad beats.
I decided to stop playing FT !!! Because it would affect my thinking process when I flip flop between FT and other sites.
Goodbye FullTilt...I'm not the only one saying that...

 

[Stick66]

I play many other sites and I cannot win at FullTilt. I am not losing much though.
I keep coming back playing FT several times but it screws up my mind with excessive and frequent bad beats.
I decided to stop playing FT !!! Because it would affect my thinking process when I flip flop between FT and other sites.
Goodbye FullTilt...I'm not the only one saying that...

LOLZ!

 

[coolnout]

Cleared for botting? As in they got the OK from Pokerstars to bot?
Now that's hard to believe.

no, cleared of the botting accusations and that she was indeed human.

 

[luckforsome]

...Can i ask, how would FT go about using abot...i honestly dont see the reason why they would....there maling there rake, making there money,,, why would they be arsed at screwing around with other people???

 

[Ebaum]

...Can i ask, how would FT go about using abot...i honestly dont see the reason why they would....there maling there rake, making there money,,, why would they be arsed at screwing around with other people???

Because rake + 80k pot > rake + 0

Nice butcher with the 'There rake' too.

http://whatispunctuation.com/index.htm#there

 

[SavagePenguin]

PokerNewsDaily article

People don't play mostly empty tables. Poker site bots would populate mostly-empty tables to attract more players, then leave once the table is full. Even if the bots were slightly losing players, getting tables full of players creates more money in rake, so the gaming site comes out ahead.

The lawsuit also accuses Full Tilt of being a "casino" rather than a "card room." (Card rooms are legal in CA) They make this claim because they accuse the red pros of using house money instead of their own money.

 

[Mase31683]

If FT pulled the money, they had cause. Plenty of others have won much more than that on a regular basis and haven't any problems at FT. I suspect the suit against FT is crap made up by the cheaters in an attempt to get their money back.

qft

Although, Pokerstars knew Hevad "RaiNKhAN" Khan was a bot too, lol. Cuz he was 24 tabling or something like that. Still, if they're innocent they likely could've done something to show this rather than suing FTP and claiming that the site itself uses bots.

 

[LeanAndMean]

Ok this might be a "stupid" question but......... how can you sue someone over something that is Illegal in the US???? I mean it's like trying to sue someone for stealing $100,000 worth of your Cocaine or buying some crack from a neighbor and then sueing them cause you got addicted.

Whoa, Poker is NOT illegal in the US. the only thing illegal is institutions funding the sites.

 

[ean]

Ok this might be a "stupid" question but......... how can you sue someone over something that is Illegal in the US???? I mean it's like trying to sue someone for stealing $100,000 worth of your Cocaine or buying some crack from a neighbor and then sueing them cause you got addicted.

Gross, PLAYING online is NOT illegal, except in just 2-3 States in the USA.

What was made illegal by the federal law, UIGEA or whatever it's called, was the electronic transfer of money from US banks. So for people that have money on there already, or put it on by legal means, it is not illegal.

Leaner, there ARE 2-3 states in the USA where it actually IS illegal to play online poker. I think it was Illinois, Washington, and Louisiana, but you can look it up online.
There were then another few states, 7-8, where it might be illegal and different legal opinions varied and it had not been clearly defined or tested in court. But it is legal in the vast majority of states.

 

[Lonsdaleite]

I'd like to know the programing for the bot. What hands did it raise? How often does it bluff? What requirements does it need to continue on in the hand? Does it play LAG or TAG. Does it use stats like Poker Tracker or Holdem Manager to play differently against other players?

I am guessing that it was a limit bot because most programmers say no limit bots would be pretty hard to program.