PKR - BAD BEAT OVERDOSE

[underdog]

Has anyone else noticed the masive software flaw in PKR.

As an avid PKR campaigner I have been spouting the huge benefits of this amazing 3D poker site...but over the last 6 weeks I have spotted and been following a flaw that I suspected, and it seems to be recurring.

If 2 players are head to head, where 1 hand is behind because of a matching card, the underdog will hit their 1 card 80% of the time
(say AK v K8, an 8 will nearly ALWAYS come in
or J10 v 10 3 will see a 3 come)
(the other scenario is for the underdog to flop in a str8 or flush).

This is now recorded as 80-83% (as PKR kindly record all ur hand history and pop it in ur programme files for u)

I have sent these to PKR who admit that this is very strange, and say they are looking in to it (they, of course, are not going to do anything).

I have tried to point out to their programmers that there is such a thing as 'no one hitting' -when head to head, and that actually the laws of probability and maths as we know it is quite an easy formula to understand (52 cards -4 hole cards to hit one of 5 community cards).

I have pointed out (and have the records) that no one will hit in only 4% of hands, again, this defies realistic play and probability.

Anyway, the long and short of this is that 2 cards are 2 cards, but the player making the wrong call with the lesser hand is going to always be the favourite on PKR.

I hope this helps any other players on PKR (though it doesnt help me, as im not in the habit of playing with what i know to be the worse hand).

....otherwise, i find PKR to be much better and more realistic than most sites - which tend to give out massive results every 3 or 4 hands (and as we all know this rarely happens live).

Lets hope they can resolve these issues, and at the very least can anybody reading this look out for these scenarios now....i cant be the only one to spot it !!

 

[Egon Towst]

Rigged.

 

[Bombjack]

I don't think there's a real issue here - I certainly haven't noticed an undue number of bad beats. How can I check my hand histories to find out?

If 2 players are head to head

You mean playing heads-up, or just where 2 people see the flop?

, where 1 hand is behind because of a matching card, the underdog will hit their 1 card 80% of the time
(say AK v K8, an 8 will nearly ALWAYS come in
or J10 v 10 3 will see a 3 come)
(the other scenario is for the underdog to flop in a str8 or flush).

If all-in or just normal betting? How do you know when they had top pair if they fold it on the turn or river... surely you just see this when it does hit, giving a huge bias to the histories where the undercard comes.

Plus, with 2 pair, that player will probably be raising. So if he's called down by top pair, the latter hand will usually be mucked and you won't see that they did have top pair in the hand history.

This is now recorded as 80-83%

Where, recorded by what? What sample size?

 

[underdog]

look - if 2 players call all in pre flop... and 1 has AK and the other has A6, the player with A6 will win. It has to be the same scenario where 2 players go all in pre flop, and have a matching card - the lowest kicker will win 80%.
(e.g. J9 will nearly always beat J10, 10 6 will beat A10 etc)
U cant use this to ur advantage as u wouldnt call an all-in if u thought u were losing.

u can find ur hand history in the PKR folder in ur program files.
go to 'my computer' / 'c:' drive / 'programme files' (usually in here) / 'pkr' / 'hand history'
u can track all hands that YOU have played here, by date. it doesnt record ALL hands from a game, just yours.... so when u see it happen to other people, it will recorded in THEIR 'PKR' folder.

 

[doodydota]

I've played at PKR for a month.

Indeed, people at this site go with top pair & low kicker way too far.

I love to hit trips with an ace on the board. You then can push it hard throug flop/turn/river and get called down by 2 donks. Their rivered 2nd pair wont be any help. You might even get a re-reaise "because he cant have trips, people always slowplay them".

 

[Egon Towst]

I certainly haven't noticed an undue number of bad beats. How can I check my hand histories to find out?

u can find ur hand history in the PKR folder in ur program files.
go to 'my computer' / 'c:' drive / 'programme files' (usually in here) / 'pkr' / 'hand history'
u can track all hands that YOU have played here, by date. it doesnt record ALL hands from a game, just yours.... so when u see it happen to other people, it will recorded in THEIR 'PKR' folder.

Lol

You`re in danger of making a monkey of yourself here, Undie Dog. Since you`re new here, you won`t know, but Bombjack is one of this forum`s serious poker-playing dudes and PKR is his regular site. He knows where to find the hand histories. What he meant was: how is it possible to prove your claim from the hand histories ?

Another point of information - I was one of the PKR beta testers, and I`ve been playing there since before the rest of the world knew it existed. Thousands of hands. I`ve never noticed the oddity you`re talking about.

 

[Bombjack]

look - if 2 players call all in pre flop... and 1 has AK and the other has A6, the player with A6 will win. It has to be the same scenario where 2 players go all in pre flop, and have a matching card - the lowest kicker will win 80%.
(e.g. J9 will nearly always beat J10, 10 6 will beat A10 etc)
U cant use this to ur advantage as u wouldnt call an all-in if u thought u were losing.

OK, that clarifies that the scenario you're talking about... but who goes all-in pre-flop with A6??? Certainly not in a cash game. If you're talking about tournament situations, I can't see how your sample size could be really be big enough... people only go all-in pre-flop with A-rag if they're really short stacked.

Basically you only notice when the Ace with the lower kicker wins. AK vs AJ is only 71% to win anyway, or AK vs A5s is 66%, so it's not that much of a bad beat. Try doing a binomial statistical test to see if your numbers are significant. Or just always go all-in with A2-A6 and bin AK-AT.

 

[underdog]

i dont get it... im not condoning the reasons why anybody would be in this situation, or suggesting an alternative to gameplay - i am merely pointing out that this scenario exists, the PKR percentages and reality do not add up. I didnt mean to suggest that anyone here is good, bad or inexperienced -just that when a player needs to hit 1 value of card, the odds of hitting any 1 specific card are of course 2% (therefore has a reality value of 6% (30% over 5 cards)- assuming they are still in play).... They will hit this card in this scenario virtually every time.

[A 30% SHOT SHOULD NOT HIT 80% OF THE TIME -THIS DEFIES THE LAWS OF PROBABILITY]

I am only pointing this out to anyone who cares to follow this, to see if this is a common occurance. PKR have acknowledged my claim, have given it merit, and are looking into improving this.

Just because some people mat not have noticed this, it doesn't mean it does not happen or i'm making it up. If anyone would like to test it out - all you need is a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle and tick 1 side or the other with an outcome when this scenario occurs. you will clearly see that in no way is this a long shot on PKR (the 80% grading is merely the amount that this has happened to me personally which is recorded in my hand history, so this value may fluctuate for u)

All i ask is that you are aware of this so u can look out for it.

 

[Stefanicov]

I say RIGGED RIGGED RIGGED

 

[Egon Towst]

You need to run your experiment for several thousand hands for it to have any meaning. If you have real evidence, please show it to us. We would genuinely be interested.

If you make a complaint to customer services at any kind of retail or service organisation, they will always say, "Thanks for drawing that to our attention, we will look into it." They are never going to say, "Get lost, fool," even if that`s what they think. It would be poor customer relations. The fact that they say they are looking into it means nothing.

 

[Bombjack]

You need to run your experiment for several thousand hands for it to have any meaning.

It doesn't need to be that big, although a bigger sample is obviously better. A sample of around 30 consecutive situations exactly as the OP describes (Ax vs Ax) all-in pre-flop should be plenty to test his hypothesis that the outcomes are not as expected by chance, if the deviations are as big as he says they are. But I would be very very very very surprised if the results were any different from what could be accounted for by chance.

I would consult my own hand histories but I really don't think it's worth the effort.

 

[Unmasked]

Plus, with 2 pair, that player will probably be raising. So if he's called down by top pair, the latter hand will usually be mucked and you won't see that they did have top pair in the hand history.

I don't play on PKR but why wouldn't you see the muck in your hand history?

 

[Bombjack]

Because it doesn't show mucked hands.

 

[pokerrqueenn]

lol. now the mucking history is rigged to.

 

[Unmasked]

Well I watch the mucks when I play on stars and just assumed all sites showed the mucks.

 

[Egon Towst]

Some do, some don`t.

As far as I understand it, the reason is this:

In live play, you are (according to the strict rules) allowed to see the cards of all players still in the pot if the hand goes to a showdown. Therefore some of the sites consider it proper to show you the holdings of anyone who was involved in the showdown, even though they may have conceded defeat and mucked.

On the other hand, it is usual in live play that if an opponent concedes and mucks, you respect his privacy and do not ask to see his holding. It is considered bad manners to do so. Therefore, some of the online poker rooms follow the established custom rather than the strict rule and do not show the mucked hands.

 

[Ricey155]

i actually left PKR after never seeming to be able to play a hand

i spend over $100 and never seemed to catch a flop while everyone else was hitting cards left right and center

i actually wrote hands down and never hit a pair above jacks in 5 sit and go's
let alone 2 pairs in the hand a straight or flush


6 months later i got a $10 token for my birthday and played amazing i got loads of good starting cards and won some money

not sure about the site

 

[AceZWylD]

This is somewhat interesting, but i'm not buying that a site is rigged because of it.
To me, this sounds like a lot of players going all in with marginal or poor hands, and being fortunate to catch cards. Sounds like a perfect site to go on to and play poker, not play all in pre-flop.
The solution is simple. Don't go all in pre-flop without a made hand, and outplay your opponent after the flop.
You can't complain about how the cards fall when you you put yourself in an all in situation under marginal conditions.

 

[whazzzup]

I know it's a old threat but this is something what fits right in.

What do you think of this one on PKR

A table of 10 players, the chip leader goes all in on pre-flop with 9/3.
3 other players follows with AA KK and QQ
Showdown, and what you think: 5,7,9,9,9 he hits his quad

This was hand number 267132620
So what do you think of that?

 

[WVHillbilly]

I know it's a old threat but this is something what fits right in.

What do you think of this one on PKR

A table of 10 players, the chip leader goes all in on pre-flop with 9/3.
3 other players follows with AA KK and QQ
Showdown, and what you think: 5,7,9,9,9 he hits his quad

This was hand number 267132620
So what do you think of that?

I think I'd like to see the full hand history, if it exists.

 

[Bombjack]

It's unusual but I've seen AA vs KK vs QQ before, and 9-3 has a fair amount of equity in that match-up. In fact I was playing in a live tournament not long ago where there was a 4-way all-in with KK, QQ, TT and A4, with A4 winning. Basically it's pretty zzzz.

 

[whazzzup]

I think I'd like to see the full hand history, if it exists.

Table #5421446 - Salamina
Starting Hand #267132620
Last Hand #267131811
Game Type: Hold'em
Limit Type: No Limit
Table Type: Ring
Money Type: real money
Blinds are now $0.05/$0.10
Button is at seat 6
Seat 1: Julio2b - $22.07
Seat 2: Alymer - $14.49
Seat 3: whazzzup - $9.50
Seat 4: wetvet - $9.35
Seat 5: Dolly22 - $4.55
Seat 6: angelface666 - $10.09
Seat 7: Nitten - $6.85
Seat 8: TJHarley - $9.34
Seat 9: lifer - $4
Seat 10: Tjabba - $9.43
Moving Button to seat 7
TJHarley posts small blind ($0.05)
lifer posts big blind ($0.10)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [4d Ts] to whazzzup
Tjabba folds
Julio2b calls $0.10
Alymer raises to $14.49 (all-in)
whazzzup folds
wetvet folds
Julio2b laughs his *** off.
TJHarley can't believe it.
Dolly22 folds
angelface666 calls $10.09 (all-in)
TJHarley can't believe it.
Nitten calls $6.85 (all-in)
TJHarley calls $9.34 (all-in)
lifer folds
Dolly22 frowns.
Julio2b cheers.
whazzzup laughs his *** off.
Julio2b folds
TJHarley cheers.
Returning $4.40 to Alymer uncalled
Alymer shows [9h 3c]
angelface666 shows [Qh Qc]
Nitten shows [Ad Ah]
TJHarley shows [Ks Kc]
TJHarley can't believe it.
Dealing Flop [5h 7h 9d]
Dealing Turn [9s]
Dealing River [9c]
Taking Rake of $2 from pot 1
Alymer has Four of a kind: 9s
Alymer wins $1.50 from side pot #2 with: Four of a kind: 9s
Julio2b: OMG !!!!
Julio2b: OMG !!!
Dolly22 acknowledges a nice hand.
Alymer wins $7.47 from side pot #1 with: Four of a kind: 9s
Alymer wins $25.60 with: Four of a kind: 9s
Nitten says thank you.
Seat 1: Julio2b - $21.97
Seat 2: Alymer - $38.97
Seat 3: whazzzup - $9.50
Seat 4: wetvet - $9.35
Seat 5: Dolly22 - $4.55
Seat 6: angelface666 - $0
Seat 7: Nitten - $0
Seat 8: TJHarley - $0
Seat 9: lifer - $3.90
Seat 10: Tjabba - $9.43
Julio2b: ahahahahahhahah
Tjabba: luckbox!!!!!
TJHarley can't believe it.
End Of Hand #267132620 :deal:

I see now Alymer was second in stack, but his all-in with 9/3 is normaly a suicide action on his position with those cards.

 

[switch0723]

:bebored: A 2$ rake on a 10c bb table, something fishy there with that HH

 

[Egon Towst]

This was hand number 267132620
So what do you think of that?

I think that a $10NL ring game is likely to contain people who will play any 2 cards any time.

 

[skingsley]

pkr is fishy come on

i know this is an old thread but i have 2 say there is somthing up at pkr

ive had 2 many bad beats on this and it started when was beginng to run all over the fish on this site

think about it small sites dont want u ruinng all over there tables so they stop u end of i left this site now plus the rake is far 2 hight and animation just makes the gams slow

and why has this link had so many veiwers bat beats at pkr
thats why

and 2 u who dont think get a pack of real cards give yourself pockt aces a random hand and see how many times they get beat not meny aces on pkr lose all the time

i maybe paraniod "but that doesnt mean that pkr arnt looking after there own intrests"