PA PokerStars: Married Couples Having Problems Registering?

[jmbtsb]

Hello everyone!

I am interested in hearing from other members about their PA pokerstars problems. More specifically, I am interested in hearing from others who have been punished by Pokerstars solely because their spouse tried to open an account.

Please let me know if you have encountered the same issue when you or your spouse signed up for a pokerstars account or any similar problems with Pokerstars.

Our Story:

In 2019, I signed up for Pokerstars in PA and was approved after providing my name, address, bank account information, and answering three security questions. Everything was was fine with my account until April 2020. In April of 2020, my account was frozen because my spouse dared to signed up for a pokerstars account as well.

Similar to me, my spouse provided her name, address, bank account information, and answered three security questions. In response, Pokerstars denied her account because pokerstars did not like her driver's license picture. Pokerstars request a live picture of her driver's license, which she provided. After receiving the live picture, Pokerstars opened her account.

Immediately after opening her account (within an hour), Pokerstars froze both accounts and demanded that we both sending in additional pictures holding our driver's licenses next to our face. The reason given was that both accounts were obviously controlled by the same person since: we had the same last name, the same address, the same bank account and had the same answer to one of the three security questions. The security question we answered the same?

"In what city did you get married?"

The real problem was that my account was frozen while I was trying to clear one of my awarded bonuses and during the time frame of my free tournament tickets. I have accused Pokerstars of purposefully discriminating against married couples by forcing them through addition verification steps merely because they happened to be married. Pokerstars has denied that this is true or that this is a problem. After a little online searching, I was able to locate at least one two plus two forum post about this issues. While this issue was reported to the Pennsylvania gambling Control Board, they declined to do anything about this discrimination practice.

I am interested in hearing from others who have encountered the same or similar problems when trying to sign up or play on pokerstars because their spouse also had an account.

Thanks in advance to future posters. I look forward to reading your comments.

JMBTSB (I'm the TSB)

 

[fundiver199]

When your spouse opened an account, it apparently flagged their security system. Which is not to strange, because for rather obvious reasons there has to be at least some suspicion, that actually it was you opening another account and just using her name. And of course multiaccounting is not allowed. But as far as I know, it is not against their TOS for people living in the same household to play on Stars. So if everything was done in good faith, and the required documents presented, then surely the accounts have been unlucked now, since it happened in april 2020, which is 21 month ago?

 

[jmbtsb]

a couple more tidbits

I raised a couple issues with PS that might address some of your points.

1 - PS originally denied her application and requested a second picture from her. She sent it in. If if was not good enough, they should have asked for a third picture before opening her account and thereby freezing my account. I am entitled to an account. If they had legit concerns, those concerns should have been address BEFORE her account was opened and thus avoiding the unnecessary freezing of my account.

2 - My wife could not have applied any differently than she did. Her name and address are what they are as shown by her Driver's License. Why is she/us punished versus two people who live together? We know another couple that are not married but live together that are not put through these extra hurdles even though they use the same address, computer, bank account and security question answer (their queston was about first pet, its the same for both since they got it together when they moved in).

3 - I was livid that my account was frozen such that I missed clearing a bonus as well as a tournament. I didn't really want to give in to this harassment after that so I took their advice and filed a complaint with the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board. It was during the PGCB investigation that we sent in the fourth set of pictures holding our Driver's Licenses next to our faces. PS still has not activated our accounts.

 

[Tammy]

Did you do the last thing that they requested?

I can understand your frustration a little bit - it is kind of a pain, but you have to look at it from a more practical perspective.

PokerStars has been allowed a license to operate in the US after having been denied that option on Black Friday. A state like PA that now has regulated online poker has strict and stringent guidelines for the operators that are granted licenses. Not the least of which is account security and fraud prevention. If PokerStars is found to be letting anything of the sort lax, it could be the end of their license, and the end of your good poker time.

Here's what I don't understand: Other than the moderate inconvenience of having your account frozen for a short time while you provide the requested information, why wouldn't you want to do everything they can to protect their player base and make sure players are legitimate, and not multi-accounting on the site? Personally, it seems like you are picking the wrong battle to fight here.

 

[fundiver199]

I very much agree with Tammy. Yes its inconvenient for poker players to have our accounts investigated, and its unfortunate, that you missed out on some bonus. But bonuses are not an entitlement and should never be the main reason, why we play poker. So its not like, this is a particularly big deal at all.

I mean: If they suspect - rightfully or wrong - that someone is cheating, do you really think, they should allow that to continue, because they gave the person a bonus??? Especially when one of the reasons, some people do multiaccounting, is to get the same bonus twice, which is a scam against the site.

As I understand it, your account is still locked, because you refused to send in the required documents and filed a complaint to the gambling commission instead, basically saying that poker sites should not carry out security checks against married cupples. In my opinion PokerStars did everything right, and you overreacted and choose to make some kind of "principle" matter out of it, which mean, you can still not play there.

I dont think, you will find a whole lot of people here, who think, this is a great idea, or that you have a good case. Most of us actually appreciate a safe playing environment without multiaccounters and other cheaters, even though it sometimes mean, that innocent people get selected for a routine security check.

 

[kidkvno1]

PS has to go by State law, on what's listed for 2 people living in the same house.

If you're not will to send in the docs, that PS is asking for they will keep your account locked, and the gambling commission WILL not do anything to have your account unlocked, out of anything They will give PS the OK to take your money and give it to the state..

The gambling commission are the ones who set the rules into place, if you're not will to go by the rules, you won't get your money at all.

I've had my play money account locked out and did everything they asked and was good to go within a week, it was all from logging into the account from a laptop..

I don't see this user, posting anything more, since the gambling commission won't help him out at all!!


PS needs a photo ID or DL next to her and not just a photo!!! Poster is not listing everything that PS does ask for. Ask me how I know this, I had todo it twice!!

P.S I live in PA!

 

[fundiver199]

I can understand your frustration a little bit

I can also understand the frustration and especially the feeling, that the reasons stated by PS for the investigation are rather dumb. Like "you had the same answer to a security question", which was "where did you get married". Which - yes - obviously a married cupple will always answer the same, or otherwise something much more serious is wrong

But the locking of the accounts was done automatically by a computer program, and computers are always dumb. They literally dont have a brain. So no need to take this personal or get emotional about it. If OP and his spouse had send it the required documentation, then an actual human would have looked at it, and things would quickly have been solved. So this is indeed the wrong fight to pick

 

[jmbtsb]

Here's what I don't understand: Other than the moderate inconvenience of having your account frozen for a short time while you provide the requested information, why wouldn't you want to do everything they can to protect their player base and make sure players are legitimate, and not multi-accounting on the site? Personally, it seems like you are picking the wrong battle to fight here.

Wrong battle? It seems so. Some of my questions are:
How can we both pass the verification system that PS uses but still have our accounts frozen. This is not a case where we sat at the same table etc. This case has nothing to do with our activities, just our biographical data.

PS applied for a PA license. As part of that license application, PS submitted an application with their verification system/process outlined. This was approved by PGCB. This verification process was used on me in 2019 and I passed with no problem. This verification process was used on my wife on 4/11/2021. The initial response was NO, please submit a live picture of your driver's license to have your ID verified. She did and her application was approved. WHY???????????????????????????????????????

We did not sit at the same table, we did not cross book any bets. Quite literally, my wife did not play a single hand of poker, casino games, or place a sportsbook bet. Why was her account frozen after successfully passing verification.

We both have accounts on Pokerstars, Hollywood Casino, Sugarhouse, Draftkings, BetMGM, Barstools, and MyChoice. All are licensed by the PGCB. Only two of these sites have every said anything to us.

Draftkings sent us a notice that did not accuses either of us of a felony (ID theft). Draftkings sent us a nice honesty email telling us that DK policy is only one username per funding source and asked that we not use the same joint bank account to fund both our accounts. No problem, thanks for the honesty as to what the issue was, we changed her to cash deposits (using local Sheetz, very easy and free).

PS on the other had, starts with three lies about what is happening all while our accounts are frozen and they are accusing us of stealing the other's identity (as well as driver's licenses). Their "smoking gun" is the we somehow inconceivably answered a security question the same. An almost unheard of occurrence. However, the security question is designed such that we had to answer the same if we were who we claimed. "In what city did you get married?"

If Jokerstars had a legit concern that she was not who she said she was. They could have asked for something more from her before allowing her account. This would have prevented any account freezing, lost money, and inconvenience. I am with you on player protection but jokerstars "process" is not what they told the PGCB they would use to verify and, as I argue, it is not even really designed to catch bad behavior (multi-accounting).

If we played the same cash games, tournaments, bet opposite sides of the same sport event, etc., then yes we should be under extra scrutiny. This was not about our activities (she literally had none), this was about us answering that security question with the same answer.

To me, "where did you get married?" would be more open ended and could be answered differently based on how each of us interpreted the question. For example, some might answer with a city, state, "southside" etc. and some might answer with the a generic church/mosque/temple/courthouse, and some might answer with the specific name of the church/mosque/temple/courthouse. However, when you specifically frame the question to ask for a city, this only lends itself to multiple users answering the same. I know we are not the only ones married in that particular city because we had trouble booking the location it was so busy.

My question for you would be: why cant pokerstars do a better job in asking for the right "picture" during the application process? Sure would have saved a lot of hassle if jokerstars had asked for a picture of her driver's license next to her face instead of just a live picture. In other words, why do all the other licensed sites in PA leave us alone while jokerstars does not?

How hard would it be for a site that makes millions per month to recognize problematic security questions "Where did you meet your spouse?" "In what city did you get married?" when the system they designed and control is only flagging the two people that are designed to answer this question the same?

This battle may not only be the wrong one, it may be unwinnable. We did not win with Jokerstars, we did not win when we complained to the PGCB, and we did not win the first court hearing. However, there is a glimmer of hope in that we did just technically win in the second court hearing. Or at least jokerstars was ordered by the Judge to explain how they lost all the evidence that shows my wife sending in the live picture and both of us sending in the live picture of DLs next to our face among other things.

Thanks for your post and taking an interest in this Don Quijote and his Dulcinea as we tilt at Pokerstars' windmill!

 

[Tammy]

I can also understand the frustration and especially the feeling, that the reasons stated by PS for the investigation are rather dumb. Like "you had the same answer to a security question", which was "where did you get married". Which - yes - obviously a married cupple will always answer the same, or otherwise something much more serious is wrong

But the locking of the accounts was done automatically by a computer program, and computers are always dumb. They literally dont have a brain. So no need to take this personal or get emotional about it. If OP and his spouse had send it the required documentation, then an actual human would have looked at it, and things would quickly have been solved. So this is indeed the wrong fight to pick

Wrong battle? It seems so. Some of my questions are:
How can we both pass the verification system that PS uses but still have our accounts frozen. This is not a case where we sat at the same table etc. This case has nothing to do with our activities, just our biographical data.

PS applied for a PA license. As part of that license application, PS submitted an application with their verification system/process outlined. This was approved by PGCB. This verification process was used on me in 2019 and I passed with no problem. This verification process was used on my wife on 4/11/2021. The initial response was NO, please submit a live picture of your driver's license to have your ID verified. She did and her application was approved. WHY???????????????????????????????????????

We did not sit at the same table, we did not cross book any bets. Quite literally, my wife did not play a single hand of poker, casino games, or place a sportsbook bet. Why was her account frozen after successfully passing verification.

We both have accounts on Pokerstars, Hollywood Casino, Sugarhouse, Draftkings, BetMGM, Barstools, and MyChoice. All are licensed by the PGCB. Only two of these sites have every said anything to us.

Draftkings sent us a notice that did not accuses either of us of a felony (ID theft). Draftkings sent us a nice honesty email telling us that DK policy is only one username per funding source and asked that we not use the same joint bank account to fund both our accounts. No problem, thanks for the honesty as to what the issue was, we changed her to cash deposits (using local Sheetz, very easy and free).

PS on the other had, starts with three lies about what is happening all while our accounts are frozen and they are accusing us of stealing the other's identity (as well as driver's licenses). Their "smoking gun" is the we somehow inconceivably answered a security question the same. An almost unheard of occurrence. However, the security question is designed such that we had to answer the same if we were who we claimed. "In what city did you get married?"

If Jokerstars had a legit concern that she was not who she said she was. They could have asked for something more from her before allowing her account. This would have prevented any account freezing, lost money, and inconvenience. I am with you on player protection but jokerstars "process" is not what they told the PGCB they would use to verify and, as I argue, it is not even really designed to catch bad behavior (multi-accounting).

If we played the same cash games, tournaments, bet opposite sides of the same sport event, etc., then yes we should be under extra scrutiny. This was not about our activities (she literally had none), this was about us answering that security question with the same answer.

To me, "where did you get married?" would be more open ended and could be answered differently based on how each of us interpreted the question. For example, some might answer with a city, state, "southside" etc. and some might answer with the a generic church/mosque/temple/courthouse, and some might answer with the specific name of the church/mosque/temple/courthouse. However, when you specifically frame the question to ask for a city, this only lends itself to multiple users answering the same. I know we are not the only ones married in that particular city because we had trouble booking the location it was so busy.

My question for you would be: why cant pokerstars do a better job in asking for the right "picture" during the application process? Sure would have saved a lot of hassle if jokerstars had asked for a picture of her driver's license next to her face instead of just a live picture. In other words, why do all the other licensed sites in PA leave us alone while jokerstars does not?

How hard would it be for a site that makes millions per month to recognize problematic security questions "Where did you meet your spouse?" "In what city did you get married?" when the system they designed and control is only flagging the two people that are designed to answer this question the same?

This battle may not only be the wrong one, it may be unwinnable. We did not win with Jokerstars, we did not win when we complained to the PGCB, and we did not win the first court hearing. However, there is a glimmer of hope in that we did just technically win in the second court hearing. Or at least jokerstars was ordered by the Judge to explain how they lost all the evidence that shows my wife sending in the live picture and both of us sending in the live picture of DLs next to our face among other things.

Thanks for your post and taking an interest in this Don Quijote and his Dulcinea as we tilt at Pokerstars' windmill!

That is silly, re: the where did you meet question, but as fundiver pointed out, it's likely automated at first until it gets flagged. It was, and now they are asking for further confirmation on your part.

I just think you're picking a weird hill to die on, and wasting a lot of your own time, plus that of a lot of other people when you could just take the pics and send them in.

But..what court hearings? You're actually going to court? That's interesting. And sounds...expensive, when there really hasn't been any damages.

 

[jmbtsb]

As I understand it, your account is still locked, because you refused to send in the required documents and filed a complaint to the gambling commission instead, basically saying that poker sites should not carry out security checks against married cupples. In my opinion PokerStars did everything right, and you overreacted and choose to make some kind of "principle" matter out of it, which mean, you can still not play there.

I dont think, you will find a whole lot of people here, who think, this is a great idea, or that you have a good case. Most of us actually appreciate a safe playing environment without multiaccounters and other cheaters, even though it sometimes mean, that innocent people get selected for a routine security check.

It should be fairly obvious that I am extremely sensitive to being called a liar or a cheat, which is exactly what was done here. And yes this is the wrong side of the battle given the desire almost all of us have of playing online in a safe, cheater free environment.

We are friends with an unmarried couple who live together and play on PS without any 'extra hurdles'. I also have a friend who still lives with his adult son and both play on PS without any 'extra hurdles'.

I like to believe that I would not have taken such an offense if every time any two people who share the same address were put through the same process married people are put through. To me, PS has a poorly designed system that only burdens married couples and this is well known to them. If you search two plus two or facebook and pokerstars, you will find similar stories from other married people.

As you might have guessed, our reaction had a lot to do with the PS lies and my sensitivity to liars. The first message from pokerstars was the account freeze was temporary and would be lifted after a "random security check". This was a standard message that is a blatant unnecessary lie. This was not "random" and would not be lifted until we complied. Next, they lied and said my wife was not asked nor did she submit a live picture of her drivers license as part of the verification process. In addition, they denied that we both sent in our live pictures holding our drivers licenses.

It was fairly easy to prove to the Judge that these were lies by PS since we have all the emails showing us repeatedly sending in the requested pictures. We were fortunate enough that the Judge did not take kindly to PS' repeated lies and ordered them to answer for their denial.

I have no problem and do very much support security checks. Where we part ways is the notion that my wife and I should somehow be subjected to increased burdens solely because we are married. I am not complaining about security checks in general, I am complaining about discrimination against married couples solely because they are married.

If you think PS did everything right, why do you think it would have been the wrong thing for PS to have asked my wife for a live picture next to her face instead of just a live picture?

Also, why do you think married people who co-habitate should be under more scrutiny than an unmarried couple, roommates, or a father and son who live together?

To me this is about being treated equal without any BS. If we were not married when she signed up, we would not have been hassled. Fortunately, we live in a country that has laws against discrimination based on marital status and provides a forum that allows me to challenge companies for such discrimination. If I am on the right side, I should win. If, as you believe, PS did everything right, PS will win the court case.

PS generally denied that we sent in the pictures but the Judge just put them to the test to explain how I have all these emails PS claims do not exist. Oh, PS has recently switched to alleging that PA does not prohibit discrimination based on marital status for online commercial activity as a backup position.

 

[jmbtsb]

To reiterate, I am not really looking for sympathy with my post. I understand that most PS players are happy that it is back in PA and do not want to jeopardize our good fortune or support anything that may shut down the party.

My post was designed to gather information from other PS married couples who have also been subject to the same extra scrutiny. That said, this is a forum and I do appreciate ANY input for or against as well.

 

[kidkvno1]

It should be fairly obvious that I am extremely sensitive to being called a liar or a cheat, which is exactly what was done here. And yes this is the wrong side of the battle given the desire almost all of us have of playing online in a safe, cheater free environment.

We are friends with an unmarried couple who live together and play on PS without any 'extra hurdles'. I also have a friend who still lives with his adult son and both play on PS without any 'extra hurdles'.

And as soon as they try to pull any money from the account they will get red flagged.
If you and your wife used the same bank card or CC, it's why the accounts got locked out.
Going to court is going to cost you 5K to 10K and if you lose, you'll be paying for all court costs, which could be near 50K.. You will lose it, since you checked mark you agree to the terms of the site!! And that's based on PA Law.

 

[jmbtsb]

PS needs a photo ID or DL next to her and not just a photo!!! Poster is not listing everything that PS does ask for. Ask me how I know this, I had todo it twice!!

If I misstated something, it was not my intent. As for our experience, the initial PS verification process (the one listed in excruciating detail in their PGCB application) asks for two things - picture of JUST YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE and your social security card.

When I submitted mine, I only submitted a picture of my DL without holding it next to my face and I was granted access. I signed up in 2019 but I do not think this requirement has changed and definitely did not change for my wife.

When her application was denied in 2020, they request and receive a live picture of just her DL. While this was good enough to open her account, it resulted in immediately freezing both our accounts. Only at this point did PS ask us for more:

Since we have to make sure that you are not the same person as the above-mentioned player(s), we need you to provide us with the below documents:

• A copy of a recent utility bill clearly showing your full name, current address, and statement date (no older than 3 months). In lieu of a utility bill, we will accept a phone bill, bank statement, payslip, or insurance bill which includes your full name, current address, and statement date. We will not be able to accept personal letters, mobile screenshots or bank statements from online banks such as Revolut, Monese, Monzo, Atom, N26, Pockit Ltd, etc.
• A digital photograph of you holding your identification document (in your hands, close to your face). Ensure this photo clearly shows your date of birth and the date of issue and expiry.

If you have access to your Stars Account, log in and upload the requested documents via our software by going to:

• Help → Contact Us
• Category: Account Security and Verification
• Sub-Category: Upload documents

If you are not able to log into your account, scan or take clear digital photos of the requested documentation and send them to us.
Pending your reply, real money transactions in your account will not be possible.
We appreciate your cooperation in ensuring a safe and secure environment for our players.

Regards,

Nate
Stars Security

While it asks for both, you really only need to send in one or the other. Thus, when you initially apply, your verification only requires a copy of your DL (without you in the picture) and your social security card. However, if there are issues, they then ask for a picture of you holding your DL. While you can plainly see the request is for that along with a copy of a utility bill, PS admitted during the PGCB that only the picture of you holding your DL next to your face was necessary.

 

[Tammy]

To reiterate, I am not really looking for sympathy with my post. I understand that most PS players are happy that it is back in PA and do not want to jeopardize our good fortune or support anything that may shut down the party.

My post was designed to gather information from other PS married couples who have also been subject to the same extra scrutiny. That said, this is a forum and I do appreciate ANY input for or against as well.

Let me know if you would like for me to retitle your thread to reflect that. Something like - PA PokerStars Problems for Married Couples, maybe?

 

[jmbtsb]

But the locking of the accounts was done automatically by a computer program, and computers are always dumb. They literally dont have a brain. So no need to take this personal or get emotional about it. If OP and his spouse had send it the required documentation, then an actual human would have looked at it, and things would quickly have been solved. So this is indeed the wrong fight to pick

One big issue was just that, this BS was done by a live PS employee name Nate. This all took place the within hours on the same date by the same PS employees sitting in the same room at the Isle of Mann Douglas Bay Complex.
- On 4/11/2020, my wife applied for an account including submitting her DL and SS card.
- in about 10 minutes, my wife gets an email from Nate, a PS security employee, telling her that her account was denied and they needed a live picture of her just her DL.
- in about 5 minutes, she takes a live picture of her DL on the floor and she sends it to Nate by return email.
- about 30 minutes later, she gets another email from Nate thanking her for sending in the requested picture and telling her that her account was up and running.
- less than two hours later, I log in to see my account is frozen "temporarily for a random security check"
- I write an email to support at PS to unfreeze my account.
- The same Nate as before sends both of us the email you can see in one of my other replies asking both of us for a picture of us holding our DL (as well as asking for utility bills).

Nate is the same A hole PS employee that only requests a live picture from my wife to allow her account. To say that he did not remember or could not remember what happened earlier in his shift its hard to believe. The only thing that changes since his original request to my wife was her submission of what he requested. If it was not good enough to verify her identity two hours earlier, why did he open her account.

If you are not married, I get it. Who cares what we had to go through.
If you don't mind being hassled just for being married on top of being accused of a felony, I am envious. I do mind.

What is not apparent is the very personal accusations Nate and I traded by email after these accusations. What is also not reproduce here is my extensive history of being too honest given my job where my integrity had to be untouchable for me to be effective. Those exchanges and my sensitivity around my integrity definitely lead to me not complying with the BS this time.

The complaint that PS (not other sites) has a verification process that unfairly burdens married couples and is equivalent to unlawful discrimination is what the lawsuit is about. This alleged misconduct by PS is not new and has been repeated by others. My posts was an attempt to contact any on this forum that may have experienced similar issues. Someone like this couple:

THE BELOW IS NOT US BUT SOMEONE I WOULD LOVE TO TALK WITH. ARE YOU HERE LEVANEZ FROM TWO PLUS TWO?

Pokerstars account closed after first deposit and can't get money out
Post Reply Subscribe ... 02-18-2015, 12:00 PM #1 stranger

Hi, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and unfortunately my first post has to be rather unpleasant. I apologise. The story is this: after a couple years watching me play, my wife wanted to open an account on Pokerstars to show me she can do better. Okay, I said, and shot an email to support asking if it'd be fine to have 2 accounts in 1 household. They said fine, just don't play in the same ring games and sit n go. So she registered, we played some freerolls together, she played some play money games by herself. So far, so good. Then she proceeded to make her first deposit (not much, just $20) and the following happened: - Immediately (as in, right after clicking the deposit button, but before even the confirmation dialogue) she got a message saying her account has been randomly selected for a security check. We can see the money got through, as it's shown in the balance, but her account is now frozen, nothing can be done in the client except observing games, and remain that way to this day. - She got an email from Pokerstars shortly after saying they need identification and asking for photos of her passport and bank statements. So photos are taken and off they went. - She got another email saying her bank statement doesn't show her address, an utility bill is needed instead, along with a picture of her holding her passport. I pay the bills, so she sent a scan of her national identity card (which has her address printed on it), plus a picture showing her holding both the passport and the card. She put in a few words expressing her annoyance with the process too, as she felt verification should take place before you're allowed to register (very reasonable, I must say) - She got yet another email saying they "require a separate document aside your identity document to verify" her address, and that they "accept official documents from a local authority, such as a proof of residency". At this point she ran out of patience, as the identity card above is clearly an "official documents from a local authority" (it even has her fingerprint printed on it) that also serves as proof of residency. So she told them to close her account and refund the money back to her card. Page 1 of 2 levanez - Pokerstars replied saying they will not reinstate the account until she can provide the documents, and "Pending [her] comply, the account and balance will remain frozen." My wife was visibly upset at this point, and rightfully so. While I understand the need for security check to prevent collusions and multi-accounting, I have explicitly asked Pokerstars if her opening and account is fine, and they said yes. This whole process of locking the account and requiring verification only after the first deposit is made may even be likened to theft. It's like a nightclub allowing you to enter, pay for the table and a drink, and before you can even touch the cup requiring you to prove you are who you are with several documents or they’ll kick you out, then refuse to refund the money after you have complied past the reasonable threshold and now just want to get out of the place asap. My wife has emailed them saying she doesn't want her account reinstated, she wants it closed permanently and her money returned. It has been a few days and no reply yet. Has anyone been in this situation before? How did you handle it? The money is insignificant, but this could set a dangerous precedent.

 

[jmbtsb]

I just think you're picking a weird hill to die on, and wasting a lot of your own time, plus that of a lot of other people when you could just take the pics and send them in.

My Dulcinea says the same thing. As for expense, this is a pro se filing so not too expensive. And I convince myself that I am not spending money, just redeploying money I won from PS.

The real shame is that my wife no longer has any interested in joining me on PS. In my view, this was yet another activity we could have enjoyed that PS ruined unnecessarily.

Why not just play on wsop or BetMGM? No matter how much I dislike their treatment of us, I do believe PS has one of the best if not the best poker platform and they have a LOT more players.

 

[jmbtsb]

And as soon as they try to pull any money from the account they will get red flagged.
If you and your wife used the same bank card or CC, it's why the accounts got locked out.
Going to court is going to cost you 5K to 10K and if you lose, you'll be paying for all court costs, which could be near 50K.. You will lose it, since you checked mark you agree to the terms of the site!! And that's based on PA Law.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the use of the joint account was the real issue. Too bad PS could not just come out and clearly tell people that this the problem like Draftkings did. If you tell me not to do something, I will not do it. It does not help anyone by hiding the ball about the real issue.


I did not take this to court without some confidence of winning or at least avoiding any sanctions. In other countries, such as the UK and similar european countries, the loser foots the bill for both parties. In the US it is different and each party generally bears their own costs unless one parties does something bad. In our pending court case, the bad actor is currently PS and I was able to convince the Judge just this past Tuesday that they were lying about us not submitting our requested DL pictures.

 

[jmbtsb]

Let me know if you would like for me to retitle your thread to reflect that. Something like - PA PokerStars Problems for Married Couples, maybe?

Thank you!!!!! As a technophobe, I am not really good with technology. I can use the font related buttons I recognize but not much else. Please feel free to change the title to something more appropriate and thanks in advance for doing so.

 

[Tammy]

I did change the title for you.

3 - I was livid that my account was frozen such that I missed clearing a bonus as well as a tournament. I didn't really want to give in to this harassment after that so I took their advice and filed a complaint with the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board. It was during the PGCB investigation that we sent in the fourth set of pictures holding our Driver's Licenses next to our faces. PS still has not activated our accounts.

I was just going back through seeing where I missed that you had gone to court, since it wasn't in your first post. My apologies - I posted right after this asking if you had done this as they requested (I didn't see the bolded part).

Is PokerStars aware of your litigation on this? If they are, and you submitted the requested pics during the PGCB investigation, I can understand why they didn't activate your accounts. To me, it would be like, as an example: I'm suing a restaurant for poisoning my spouse, but I want to reserve a table and eat there while the case is active against them. Of course they're going to say, "Hellll no", and they do have the right to do that. Maybe I'm way off - just an observation.

 

[jmbtsb]

FYI

below is the link to a form to request copies of license applications if anyone wants to see the actual application materials submitted for a PA online gambling license:

https://gamingcontrolboard.pa.gov/files/policies/PGCB_Right_to_Know_Policy_Request_Form.pdf

 

[ChickenArise]

another good reason not to get married

 

[Kenzie 96]

It should be fairly obvious that I am extremely sensitive to being called a liar or a cheat, which is exactly what was done here. And yes this is the wrong side of the battle given the desire almost all of us have of playing online in a safe, cheater free environment.

Ones life is ones to do with as one wishes, if you are interested in improving the overall quality of your life, you might consider investing some serious time in getting over your self. . Just saying.

 

[kidkvno1]

If I misstated something, it was not my intent. As for our experience, the initial PS verification process (the one listed in excruciating detail in their PGCB application) asks for two things - picture of JUST YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE and your social security card.

When I submitted mine, I only submitted a picture of my DL without holding it next to my face and I was granted access. I signed up in 2019 but I do not think this requirement has changed and definitely did not change for my wife.

When her application was denied in 2020, they request and receive a live picture of just her DL. While this was good enough to open her account, it resulted in immediately freezing both our accounts. Only at this point did PS ask us for more:

Since we have to make sure that you are not the same person as the above-mentioned player(s), we need you to provide us with the below documents:

• A copy of a recent utility bill clearly showing your full name, current address, and statement date (no older than 3 months). In lieu of a utility bill, we will accept a phone bill, bank statement, payslip, or insurance bill which includes your full name, current address, and statement date. We will not be able to accept personal letters, mobile screenshots or bank statements from online banks such as Revolut, Monese, Monzo, Atom, N26, Pockit Ltd, etc.
• A digital photograph of you holding your identification document (in your hands, close to your face). Ensure this photo clearly shows your date of birth and the date of issue and expiry.

If you have access to your Stars Account, log in and upload the requested documents via our software by going to:

• Help → Contact Us
• Category: Account Security and Verification
• Sub-Category: Upload documents

If you are not able to log into your account, scan or take clear digital photos of the requested documentation and send them to us.
Pending your reply, real money transactions in your account will not be possible.
We appreciate your cooperation in ensuring a safe and secure environment for our players.

Regards,

Nate
Stars Security

While it asks for both, you really only need to send in one or the other. Thus, when you initially apply, your verification only requires a copy of your DL (without you in the picture) and your social security card. However, if there are issues, they then ask for a picture of you holding your DL. While you can plainly see the request is for that along with a copy of a utility bill, PS admitted during the PGCB that only the picture of you holding your DL next to your face was necessary.

If you read their TOS, Stars has it listed that they may ask for more info.
I've always been asked to send a photo of me holding my ID next to my face, I had to send it in twice, since the flash blocked out the 1st photo, I even had it happen, when I could only get into play money games.

2.1
Eligibility. A gaming account for your use of the RM Games on the Services (a “Gaming Account”) will be opened upon your registration and making your first deposit subject to Provider verifying to our satisfaction your identity and eligibility in accordance with 58 Pa. C.S. §§ 812.2 and 1408.3(b)(4), including, but not limited to, based on the following criteria, and you hereby expressly consent to this verification process:

• you are at least 21 years of age;
• you are not a casino key employee or an employee of Mount Airy or any of its interactive gaming operators, or TSG Interactive US or any of its affiliates associated with RM Games in Pennsylvania;
• you have provided the required personal data about you, including legal name, date of birth, social security number, physical address, email address and telephone number;
• you are not self-excluded, on the exclusion list or otherwise prohibited from participation in gaming under the applicable laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania;
• you are not on the List of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons (“SDN”) maintained by the US Office of Foreign Assets Control (“OFAC”) or subject to any other applicable Sanctions. For purposes of this Agreement, “Sanctions” means any law, regulation, statute, prohibition, or similar measure applicable to the Services or to you relating to the adoption, application, implementation and enforcement of economic sanctions, trade embargoes or any other restrictive measures; and
• any other eligibility criteria required by applicable laws or regulations or otherwise required by us in order to play RM Games.

We reserve the right to suspend or cancel your Gaming Account and exclude you, temporarily or permanently, from using the Services if we are unable to complete our verification checks to our satisfaction or if, after the opening of your Gaming Account, we have reason to believe that you do not fulfill one or more of the eligibility criteria listed above or elsewhere in this Agreement or otherwise required under applicable law for use of the Services (for example, if satisfactory proof of age is not provided or if we suspect that you are underage). We also reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to decline a request for a Gaming Account for any reason, or to impose limits on certain features or materials offered or restrict your access to all or parts of such materials without notice or liability at any time.

3. SECURITY AND YOUR ACCOUNT

3.1


Registration Information. To access certain features or areas of the Services, you may be required to provide personal or other information, including, for example, to create a Gaming Account or as part of any other sign-up, registration or log-in process. You must provide full, truthful, accurate, current and complete information in respect of all details and information as required by the applicable sign-up, registration or log-in process. The information you submit must describe you (you may not impersonate another person or entity), and you may not sell, share or otherwise transfer your account information. You agree to update such details in the event of any change thereto in order to enable us to maintain current account information about you (provided that certain key data may not be available for amendment, such as a User’s social security number).

I am becoming more and more convinced that the use of the joint account was the real issue. Too bad PS could not just come out and clearly tell people that this the problem like Draftkings did. If you tell me not to do something, I will not do it. It does not help anyone by hiding the ball about the real issue.


I did not take this to court without some confidence of winning or at least avoiding any sanctions. In other countries, such as the UK and similar european countries, the loser foots the bill for both parties. In the US it is different and each party generally bears their own costs unless one parties does something bad. In our pending court case, the bad actor is currently PS and I was able to convince the Judge just this past Tuesday that they were lying about us not submitting our requested DL pictures.

Joint account, bank or PS account?? And It might not be PS that's the problem.

3.6
Authority. Provider and the PGCB retain authority over the issuing, maintenance, and closing of Users’ accounts on the Services and you agree that any dispute related thereto shall be made in accordance with Provider’s procedures and regulations of the PGCB and this Agreement.

11. YOUR REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES

11.1



Subject to applicable law and prior to your use of the Services and on an ongoing basis you represent, warrant, covenant and agree that:

• there is a risk of losing money when using the Services and that Provider has no responsibility to you for any such loss;
• your use of the Services is at your sole option, discretion and risk;
• you have read this Agreement, our Privacy Policy and the other terms and conditions referenced herein in full and agree to all of the terms and conditions of each of the foregoing;
• in compliance with our regulatory requirements and in order for you to access and use the Services you will need to provide us with certain personal details about yourself (including details regarding your methods of payment) as well as consent for us (or Mount Airy, PGCB, Third Party Providers or other third parties acting on our behalf) to have access to or make use of your location data (“Geolocation Data”) and/or such other data or information that may be derived from your Device. Geolocation Data includes your precise or near-precise physical location, which may be obtained by accessing your IP address, MAC address, RFID, Wi-Fi positioning system, Device GPS coordinates or other method. You hereby consent to collection, use and disclosure of your Geolocation Data as described herein and as set out in our Privacy Policy. Per Section 2.3, you may withdraw consent but, if you do so, you will not be able to access the Services or play the RM Games.
• you are solely responsible for any applicable taxes which may be payable on cash or prizes awarded to you through your use of the Services. Without limiting the foregoing, Provider shall be entitled in its sole discretion to deduct and withhold from any cash, prizes, or other amounts or items of value awarded to you such taxes (including withholding taxes) as may be required under any federal, state, or local law, regulation or IRS requirement, at the maximum applicable rate for such withholding, and/or to require from you such information or documentation as may be necessary or desirable in connection with such filings as Provider may be required to make under any such federal, state, or local law, regulation, or IRS requirement, and/or to withhold or delay any payment or credit to your Gaming Account for such time as may be necessary in order to fulfil the foregoing requirements. In respect to any reporting of winnings that Provider is required to make (as may be required under any federal, state, or local law, regulation, or IRS requirement) due to a transaction on your Gaming Account, you (a) declare under penalties of perjury that (i) the name, address and taxpayer identification number supplied by you to open your Gaming Account correctly identifies you and (ii) you are the recipient of the winnings and that no other person is entitled to any part of these payments, and (b) agree that any forms required to be prepared by us and sent to you can be sent to you electronically;
• the telecommunications networks and Internet access services required for you to access and use the Services are entirely beyond the control of Provider, and Provider shall have no liability whatsoever for any outages, slowness, capacity constraints or other deficiencies affecting the same;
• you are 21 years or over and that you are not currently self-excluded from any online or mobile gambling site or mobile application and that you will inform us immediately if you enter into a self-exclusion agreement with any gambling provider;
• you are not a casino key employee or an employee of Mount Airy or any of its interactive gaming operators;
• you are not a prohibited player, as set forth or otherwise identified in 4 Pa.C.S. § 13B22(f), 58 PA. Code § 812.2(f) or § 1401.8.4.9;
• you satisfy, and at all times during which you use the Services shall continue to satisfy, all of the eligibility criteria for a Gaming Account and play of RM Games;
• you are not located in a country that is subject to a U.S. Government embargo or Sanctions, including those administered by OFAC, or that has been designated by the U.S. Government as a “terrorist supporting” country; and
• you are not on any U.S. Government list of denied, debarred, prohibited or restricted parties, including, but not limited to, OFAC’s list of Specially Designated Nationals.

My mother took someone to court and she did not have to pay a dime in court costs, the other guy did, all filing fees and other cost's, since he lost.

It's not discrimination, if you can't find a bunch of threads on it happening.

It could very well be the PGCB, that had PS lock down the accounts, As I have post from the TOS from PA PS. There are 3 people in this house that have accounts on PS, before stars got locked out of the US and there was never a problem with it. Even PS, told me If I could not switch my state in PS.com, they would do it for me so I could play in play money vs the site taking me to PS.PA.


Why did you wait, till now to post this on here???? you should of posted back in 2020....

Tammy, does CC still have a PS rep???

 

[jmbtsb]

Why did you wait, till now to post this on here???? you should of posted back in 2020....

Back in 2020, I was not aware of Cardschat. It wasn't until about a week ago that I encountered Bob Pajich. I asked him if he was aware of married couples that faced this same "moderate inconvenience" or if he knew of a source where I might look for such people. Bob's connection to this forum lead me to join and post my request.

As I told Bob, I am aware of the two plus two forum and at least some of their posts by others who encountered the same treatment when their spouses tried to sign up. (see one of my previous posts in this thread showing the two plus two post by 'levanez' describing a similar situation from back in 2015/2016 time frame).

I am also aware that there are Facebook groups including at least one for PA pokerstars wherein other people are posting about their similar experiences when a spouse tried to join.

Obviously CardsChat is the place to be for poker related discussions but can you think of any other places that might be worth checking?

 

[Tammy]

Tammy, does CC still have a PS rep???

Unfortunately no.