Full Tilt poker bots pokerjoda and blondini9 active 11 months

[dsvw56]

Simply read the thread. Its all there. In spades.

Sir, you have posted no evidence. I see no proof in this thread that any of the events you describe actually happened. None. I don't see any hand histories of the accused folding to a sitting out player. Nor do I see any videos depicting the player acting in the exact same amount of time for every action. Nor is there any proof (or any way you could have proof) of your outlandish accusations that they are using the Polaris bot (Just the thought of this is actually pretty ridiculous). The Polaris technology is pretty well guarded and basically everyone that participates in the project ends up working for a poker site.

Also, insulting people isn't going to get you anywhere, especially when you are insulting well respected members of the community for absolutely no reason.

 

[Crystal Blue]

I read through all the links provided and what others had to say at FTP's forum. One thing that struck me considering the debate has been going on for several days now.
In ongoing disputes such as this, wouldn't it be to everyone's benefit if the accused were politely asked by the poker site to actually make a small effort to at least show that they were not BOTS.

I guess you would have to know you were being accused by a growing amount of people in the first place. I don't know if FTP's policy is to inform people they are being accused of wrong doing or not, especially by multiple users.

I know that if it were me being accused, I would want to show that all allegations were false in the best way I possibly could. In fact I would insist on it because my livelihood would be in jeopardy if I didn't ( assuming I played poker for a living )

The way it has played out so far is damaging to the 2 players being accused, and damaging to FTP, and could just get worse. I don't think I am very comfortable with the way FTP ( and most likely most/all sites ) always use the line "We will check it out, if we find them to be cheaters we will let you know, but if we don't, we won't"
That line has always bothered me tbh.

Poker sites will always fight tooth and nail to protect their integrity and good standing and who can blame them. But sometimes imo, they just don't address certain issues in the best manner, this being one of them.

Here's my take on this.

Without inside help from Full Tilt, we will never know the true outcome unless they refund money to folks who lost to these two players, AND they happen to be members who are still talking here.

All suspicions will be circumstantial in the beginning. There were only suspicions in the beginnings of the AP/UB scandals. Then an insider either goofed or decided he had had enough and essentially gave away the cookie jar.

There is new CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence for the op complaint that has arrived since this thread was started. That evidence is that the villains have gone missing, suggesting;

-Villains on vacation
-Villains were caught and they are in online poker suspension hell
-Villains have withdrawn all the money to a country FT can't chase them too. This might also explain why these villains dropped down in games at one point. Take some profit and start again.

It would be nice if FT were to acknowledge this publicly, but what purpose would that serve? From their POV it wouldn't serve much of a purpose. But from our POV, and this may be where FT falters, it would show us that FT support isn't nearly as bad as is often suggested.

The fact that they are gone is probably a good thing, especially if they are permabanned. Just as likely though, is that they have closed out their accounts in those names, and started fresh.

Vigilance is our ally.

Some similar thinking going on lol.

Here is my take on OP and why he felt the need to post here and why he continues to pursue this matter.

He very firmly believes that these 2 names are bots. So much so that he has actively e-mailed FTP on numerous occasions expressing his concerns and providing them with everything he possibly could to support his claim.
He has also posted at their forum almost to the point of exhaustion ( actually to the point of being banned there ) because of his very firm beliefs.

Because of that ban he then turns to some of the bigger more respected poker forums out there to express his concerns. All the while he is making the same claims and is firmly following his suspicions/concerns/beliefs.

Now, as it turns out, some of the time OP kind of lets himself down with some of the posts he is making in response to some posts from others. This is obviously born out of frustration due to his 100% belief in what he is claiming.

I doubt he finds it very inspiring when he reads posts saying he is talking crap, that he might be a lunatic/maniac and lock this thread etc etc. It obviously makes him react in a way that lowers his credibility bit by bit.

FWIW, I have taken all of his claims at face value. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his continued persistence, and I also feel his frustration at not being able to wave some kind of magic wand and provide clear proof.

I also think that he could/should of went about the whole thing in a different way. By perhaps taking a more acceptable line in expressing his concerns etc. Both the thread at FTP and the one here at some point turned in a direction that I'm sure wasn't intended originally by OP.

I don't know anything about the legality of the slander claims etc but I would be interested if that could be cleared up one way or another and once and for all. Mods/admin haven't stepped in yet and I'm sure they would have if there were legal issues. JD seems to be fairly on the ball with that type of stuff from what I've read elsewhere on the site.

A question, ( because I don't know the answer ) was the Potripper scandal threads throughout the poker forums locked for slander issues due to the player/superusers user name being posted relentlessly?

 

[TPC]

Hi Dan, I don’t know if anyone has welcomed you to CC yet… So Welcome!!!

I’m not saying I agree with nor do I disagree with you. However, you do bring up a very interesting story. I agree with Crystal Blue here. I see a guy that is passionate about the integrity of the game and wants to inform other online players of a potential breach in that integrity. As many other members have stated they can’t find the “bots” playing any more, might actually give validity to the fact that Dan’s allegations are true. Or there can be a lot of “normal” explanations” as well.

What I’m trying to say, Dan, is I applaud your persistence in uncovering a possible cheating scandal. It takes a big man to step up and bring the potential problem to light. If you happen do be wrong, no worries, you stood up for what you believed in with the sol intent to warn and protect others. If you are right, you can point your finger and say I told you so!!! As I said above, it’s an interesting story and I really want to see what the outcome is. The only problem with these things is, the public usually never finds out what actually happened. I guess if the two “bots” never play on FT again we can assume they were banned. Either way, I’ve enjoyed reading this thread, you’ve got a ton of responses and a ton of people talking and that’s what the forum is all about. Take care and if you find out anything more, I’d be interested to hear it.

 

[Janon]

thats y i chose not to play there until everythings fixed

 

[WVHillbilly]

thats y i chose not to play there until everythings fixed

LOL. Funniest post in this thread!

 

[slycbnew]

View attachment 17717



LOL. Funniest post in this thread!

^^^
OMG!!! ROFLMAO!!!

 

[Crystal Blue]

a lot of ppl do that because they feel that their edge in the lower stakes game was greater than in the higher stakes games and they probably felt like they were at a level below that of their competitors and they might have wanted to learn a little more about the game before they moved up for good. it could also be that the 53$ games ran more often than the 105$ games

also, i vote for thread lock till more evidence can be provided

I would normally agree with your reasoning here ( to a certain extent ) but with the username in question ( blondini9 ) this doesn't ring true.

Firstly, the part about the possibility that the $53 game might of ran more often than the $105 game doesn't seem to have affected our player in any way.
Their 120 day history clearly shows that at no time did they cross from $53 to $105 and/or vice verse on any single days history. It was either one or the other for every whole days sessions.
If it were a traffic issue their stats would clearly show on any given day that they would have crossed over from one limit to the other and back. ( they don't )
Also I quickly checked out what the traffic was like at both buy-ins over at FTP just now. There was 1 player waiting @ $105 and none @ $53, and there was no games currently running at either buy-in amount for LHE HU.
blondini9 must have been extremely patient to catch so many games.

Secondly, and granted this is much more of a grey area than point one but still feasible, if we use their 5 day block of playing $105 as an example, the following is true .............

Breaking up their entire 120 day history into 5 day blocks I noticed the following from the 14 full blocks of 5 days on offer ( I left out their newest 3 days and oldest 2 days to incorporate the $105 block )

The 5 day block where they played $105 was their most profitable block from the 14 full blocks.
It was also the lowest amount of games they played in any given block except for 1

Here is a list of what they actually did in their 75 days of playing over the last 120 days using blocks of 5 ( mostly ) starting from latest and ending in earliest.

* Ignoring site fees

3 day block - 86 games = $800 profit
5 day block - 151 games = $1350 profit
5 day block - 53 games = $1500 profit ( $105 buy-in )
5 day block - 126 games = $900 profit
5 day block - 102 games = $1100 profit
5 day block - 78 games = $900 profit
5 day block - 82 games = $700 profit
5 day block - 82 games = $500 profit
5 day block - 103 games = $250 profit
5 day block - 96 games = $600 profit
5 day block - 100 games = $700 loss
5 day block - 83 games = $750 profit
5 day block - 66 games = $400 profit
5 day block - 47 games = $750 profit
5 day block - 55 games = $350 profit
2 day block - 29 games = $150 profit

It seems to me that after playing over 1000 games at $53 at an average of 85 games per 5 day block and averaging a profit of $540 per 5 day block, you would be inclined to stick with playing $105 at an average of 53 games and a profit of $1500 per 5 day block for the foreseeable future until variance and/or downswings kicked in.
Don't you just stick with it until results turn bad?
Do you move straight back down after playing less and earning more?

Anyway, I am just throwing this stuff out there because I had it written down from when I originally started reading this thread and reading all of the links in it.
It proves absolutely nothing of course but who knows, someone might find a pattern to work with.

 

[Crystal Blue]

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LOL. Funniest post in this thread!

The poster clearly stated that they wouldn't go there ( FTP ) until they knew the situation was resolved.
As for them playing at Ultimate what's the problem, I gather past issues there have been resolved. Cardschat certainly think so even if you don't.

 

[JaBone30]

This has been a very intresting topic and came as no shock but a bit of a surprise that u all are talking about it. I've played online for some time now and suspected bots and programming that could read the flop before it happens as well as other players cards to know what they'er up against. I had kinda dismissed my thoughts and decided it was just bad play by rookies or ppl with to much money and nothing to do. I'm glad to finally find a place where I can talk to others about this and other topics. Keep up the good work and thanks for the info.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

hey guess what nobody's actually mentioned anything about reading holecards or flops in this topic apart from you

 

[Dwilius]

The poster clearly stated that they wouldn't go there ( FTP ) until they knew the situation was resolved.
As for them playing at Ultimate what's the problem, I gather past issues there have been resolved. Cardschat certainly think so even if you don't.

I don't see how being willing to hold smallstakes tournaments and freerolls at UB means "Cardschat certainly thinks" that UB doesn't have problems. Games weren't suspended pending an investigation when the pots were shipped the wrong way recently. Someone singling out FullTilt because of whats been presented in this thread while choosing UB as favorite site, with all that is known to have happened there, is hysterical.

 

[pantin007]

reasons this thread should be LOCKED/DELETED

1)no evidence

2)slander and making ppl believe that they are confirmed bots

3)will eventually bring in rigged theorists

4)going no where

please?

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

i'm tempted to give it a day or two to see if any new 'evidence' comes to light but i wouldn't be annoyed if someone usurped me and shut it, heh.

 

[nevadanick]

Electronic gaming will bring out the worst in those who can only profit from cheating - figuring out how to get an edge. True or not in this case, we have to accept it. The disappearance of the 2 players seems somewhat self-explanatory to me, but I'm sure we can expect to see things like this regularly.

Last week the Nevada Gaming Commission sent an advisory to all casinos that there is now a program being used on iPhones and iPods to count cards in blackjack. Card counting is frowned on, but not illegal. Using an electronic device to do it IS illegal - in Nevada.

Maybe this is one good promotional point for having legalized sites within the US where 'illegal' electronic cheating could be prosecuted. OTOH, not all cheaters are within the Continental US. How would the Justice Department pursue cheaters OUTSIDE the US playing on a US based site?

Cheaters exist. It's in the nature of 'gambling'. Always has been, always will be, live and online. As one CC member's sig line states: 'put your big girl panties on and deal with it'. Online forums are a valuable tool in battling online fraud and deception. Let's keep those lines of communication open and if the content of a few threads bothers some - don't read it. The internet IS the 'information highway'. How you utilize that information is at the discretion of the reader.

 

[DawgBones]

Electronic gaming will bring out the worst in those who can only profit from cheating - figuring out how to get an edge. True or not in this case, we have to accept it. The disappearance of the 2 players seems somewhat self-explanatory to me, but I'm sure we can expect to see things like this regularly.

Last week the Nevada Gaming Commission sent an advisory to all casinos that there is now a program being used on iPhones and iPods to count cards in blackjack. Card counting is frowned on, but not illegal. Using an electronic device to do it IS illegal - in Nevada.

Maybe this is one good promotional point for having legalized sites within the US where 'illegal' electronic cheating could be prosecuted. OTOH, not all cheaters are within the Continental US. How would the Justice Department pursue cheaters OUTSIDE the US playing on a US based site?

Cheaters exist. It's in the nature of 'gambling'. Always has been, always will be, live and online. As one CC member's sig line states: 'put your big girl panties on and deal with it'. Online forums are a valuable tool in battling online fraud and deception. Let's keep those lines of communication open and if the content of a few threads bothers some - don't read it. The internet IS the 'information highway'. How you utilize that information is at the discretion of the reader.

Very well said nick! Still not 100% sure either way, but the more information the better.When I first started online poker I would scream at the monitor about bad beats and FullTilt cheating me because,get this, I live in the USA and either they favored European players or it was partially controlled by the Taliban. Talk about your conspiracy theories, lol. Turns out I was (and still do at times) making bad calls, bets,etc. The advice in CC has helped a ton. Yes,there are cheats in all walks of life(witness the PW thieves every freeroll) and sometimes we can do something about it, sometimes not. But the more research and info is, imho, better for us all. Even if it is to dispell the conspiracy theory rather than prove it.

 

[LizzyJ]

For Pokerjoda:

FTP: ROI 1% for 2009
http://www.officialpokerrankings.co...lts/DC451CC262FF45BF9E80A7F752BDBC34.html?t=2

FTP: ROI 12% for 2008
http://www.officialpokerrankings.co...ics/DC451CC262FF45BF9E80A7F752BDBC34.html?t=9

I would like to think a bot can do better than 1% ROI. 12% isn't abnormally high. There are many players with higher ROI's. I'm not saying they are or are not bots these are just the raw numbers.

 

[Crystal Blue]

I don't see how being willing to hold smallstakes tournaments and freerolls at UB means "Cardschat certainly thinks" that UB doesn't have problems. Games weren't suspended pending an investigation when the pots were shipped the wrong way recently. Someone singling out FullTilt because of whats been presented in this thread while choosing UB as favorite site, with all that is known to have happened there, is hysterical.

I disagree with your logic here. The poster clearly stated that they had no intention of going to FTP until the issue was "fixed".
While his reasoning may have been flawed due to the fact that there is a good case that there isn't anything to be "fixed" in the first place, it doesn't mean that any recent issues at Ultimatebet have not been "fixed" to his/her satisfaction.

IMO the way this members post was used just for others to get some kind of warped kick out of it was far from hysterical. I would be more inclined to say it was pathetic or pity full, and most likely both but that's just my opinion of course and I'm sorry if it sounds a bit harsh.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I disagree with your logic here. The poster clearly stated that they had no intention of going to FTP until the issue was "fixed".
While his reasoning may have been flawed due to the fact that there is a good case that there isn't anything to be "fixed" in the first place, it doesn't mean that any recent issues at Ultimatebet have not been "fixed" to his/her satisfaction.

IMO the way this members post was used just for others to get some kind of warped kick out of it was far from hysterical. I would be more inclined to say it was pathetic or pity full, and most likely both but that's just my opinion of course and I'm sorry if it sounds a bit harsh.

Don't worry about it Crystal. It just stuck me as funny (that's why I posted it). If you didn't think so, I've got no problem with that.

I do think that this thread's run it's course. The OP hasn't been back for days, there's no real evidence, apparently the players mentioned aren't playing at the moment, and I'm sure if left alone it will just attract the OMGRIGGED posters until eventually locked.

 

[TiltMonkey999]

lol

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LOL. Funniest post in this thread!

hahahahhahah so funny. Way to funny..But hey, get some evidence then state your point. This thread should be locked, and I haven't seen them play in a long time. Maybe these so called "bots" is a person that you lost against in a HU GAME..lol your just trying to get back at them by posting this useless thread. Thanks though, it was entertaining for all of us. Im sure!

 

[Crystal Blue]

Don't worry about it Crystal. It just stuck me as funny (that's why I posted it). If you didn't think so, I've got no problem with that.

I do think that this thread's run it's course. The OP hasn't been back for days, there's no real evidence, apparently the players mentioned aren't playing at the moment, and I'm sure if left alone it will just attract the OMGRIGGED posters until eventually locked.

Yeah no worries WVB, I hear ya. And yeah again, being that OP seems to have vanished along with the 2 users in question maybe it has run it's course.

Saying that, I am thinking about starting a new thread soon on the topic of bots and some interesting stuff I have been finding out in the last 48 hours or so.
If I do decide to start it ( undecided yet ) it wont be about accusing individuals of botting or anything like that, but I do think it might shock a few people who don't know too much about these things ( as I didn't till the last few days )

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

i think we're done here.

OP feel free to start a new thread if you have any more actual information and not just the same stuff rehashed for the 54968th time.