Bovada anonymity

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HooDooKoo

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"Long sessions are rare." This is from the first post. I'll amend that now to long sessions are definitely rarer.

Also, on a related, but lesser prevalent difference in known player vs anonymous poker, I also postulate that hit n runs are more frequent. Hitting and running always has been viewed as poor poker etiquette by a majority of players. I've done it online, but it is rare. I have never hit and ran in a live poker game. The stigma associated with this practice is non-existent when when playing anonymous

What does anyone think? I would especially value an insult-free HooDooKoo opinion. I diplomatically withheld insult, just in case you didn't notice :).

Bovada as a destination for US players

HooDooKoo,
I understand, you like Bovada. I can see why many people do. I did say in the first post that there are "obvious" reasons players choose Bovada, and listed the ones that you reiterated later. A few things that you didn't mention in the defense of Bovada, that I would add and also mentioned earlier are -- (1)the variety of tournaments (2) the convenience and ease of registration, and (3) the timeliness and frequency of MTTs. It is VERY easy to see why a mostly MTT player would choose them or anyone else for that matter, including almost exclusively cash game players like myself.

I'll mention this again because it is at least in the top 3 and likely the #1 reason for US players to choose a site right now-- Traffic is key for tourney or cash game players.

Sometimes I wonder if the rift in opinion on Bovada is more of a cash game vs MTT/SNG player thing than anything else.

Who cares if hit-and-runs are more frequent at Bovada?

1. Hit-and-runners are terrible players that give their money away in the long term. If I have the misfortune of getting stacked by a hit-and-runner that leaves, he takes the money he made from me and donates it to someone else, who donates it to someone else, etc ... and eventually I get it back because I'm a winning player. So I don't care about hit-and-runners at all.

2. Hit-and-runners generally play a high-variance style of poker and get stacked far more often than they do the stacking. They are the least of my worries.

Finally, I don't particularly like Bovada. I'd much prefer to play at pokerstars, but that isn't an option for me at this time. Rather than deal with payout concerns or pathetic traffic, though, I've opted to deal with Bovada's anonymity --- and the play really isn't as different as you think it might be.

Of the two of us, I'm in a better position to talk about poker at Bovada because I've played over 500K cash hands there as well as thousands of HUSNGs. I've also played many millions of hands at various traditional screen name poker sites. And I can say, honestly, that play isn't much different at Bovada than anywhere else. Once you settle, you'll find that --- with rare exceptions --- online poker is online poker. And, as I said, for all the long-term losers (90+ percent) --- who are giving their money away long term any way you slice it --- not having screen names HELPS THEM (which is the point of the anonymity) because it prevents we sharks from bumhunting. In my experience, that's the single biggest difference between screen name poker and anonymous poker. It's tougher to identify/target the whales --- but it can still be done.

I agree that, as an environment for determining who the best player in the world is, the anonymity would be problematic. But that's not Bovada's goal --- nor anyone else's.

-HooDooKoo
 
ScooperNova

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I'm impressed. Good discussion. Condescending, but some valid viewpoints.

On the subject of adaptability and me mentioning "great" players. I should and easily could have used the word good. You took that one word and just ran with it.

Adaptability is certainly a very important skill for "winning" poker players. I understand that you play on Bovada, so the need for adaptability over time is rendered nearly useless there. I also understand that you get a good feel for your anonymous opponents after a couple of orbits and move when the play is too high quality. That is a good strategy. You said if you don't sit with players who know you and your style, unless they are fish. This statement shows that you avoid situations where adaptability is necessary. This doesn't mean anything regarding the quality of your play. You may be super adaptable, I have no idea. The fact that you avoid situations with decent players who know you shows me that you prefer to take adaptability out of the equation and play in situations where style and strategy play a bigger part. Many people, including myself, casino regulars, PLO regulars on any site, NLHE cash game players who play the same stakes, and homegame players are in situations where adaptability is necessary to counter other "winning" players because we definitely will be running into the same players over and over.

I like your points on hit and runners. That was a secondary point I made in relation to the absence of long sessions. I like long sessions sometimes. I did not intend to express that I think hit n runners are the sole reason for the lack of longer sessions. Many people play shorter sessions because they play one way every time. It doesn't take long to spot them, so they get up after a very short session and do it at another table. This is not great poker. It is however a decent strategy to beat anonymous, online poker games. So, as you can see, the very important skill of adaptability is nothing. I guess I'm a purist, but I'm sure anyone could see how this makes the game different.
 
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EA2USN

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I play at bovada mostly zone poker. Where I take a very aggressive approach in late position and attempt to steal blinds about 98% of the time. I feel that being anonymous at zone poker along with the constant changing of players is an advantage to playing extremely aggressive poker. If I make blind steals anywhere near that amount even at regular tables at bovada players will start playing back at you. Also my cbet rate on the flop at zone poker is extremely higher, Also I hit n run i.e. go south a lot on zone poker when I double up I leave table and come back with max buy in a few seconds later.
Playing that way has allowed me to increase my BR at Bovada from 5 $5 tickets to slightly over $600 now along with 2 separate $500 cash outs that were by far the fastest cash outs I have ever gotten since the neteller debacle way before black Friday.
 
ScooperNova

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I play at bovada mostly zone poker. Where I take a very aggressive approach in late position and attempt to steal blinds about 98% of the time. I feel that being anonymous at zone poker along with the constant changing of players is an advantage to playing extremely aggressive poker. If I make blind steals anywhere near that amount even at regular tables at bovada players will start playing back at you. Also my cbet rate on the flop at zone poker is extremely higher, Also I hit n run i.e. go south a lot on zone poker when I double up I leave table and come back with max buy in a few seconds later.
Playing that way has allowed me to increase my BR at Bovada from 5 $5 tickets to slightly over $600 now along with 2 separate $500 cash outs that were by far the fastest cash outs I have ever gotten since the Neteller debacle way before black Friday.

THIS. I alluded to this in the the 1st posth--the difference in known player vs. anonymous poker held sway in the effectiveness of aggression. Thanks for your opinion. I really find this subject fascinating.

I intended to edit the thread title after I wrote the post. I wanted to name this post Anonymous vs. Known Player Poker. Thread title fail. The subject of this thread seems like Bovada with the title and first few sentences of the first post.
 
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HooDooKoo

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I'm impressed. Good discussion. Condescending, but some valid viewpoints.

On the subject of adaptability and me mentioning "great" players. I should and easily could have used the word good. You took that one word and just ran with it.

Adaptability is certainly a very important skill for "winning" poker players. I understand that you play on Bovada, so the need for adaptability over time is rendered nearly useless there. I also understand that you get a good feel for your anonymous opponents after a couple of orbits and move when the play is too high quality. That is a good strategy. You said if you don't sit with players who know you and your style, unless they are fish. This statement shows that you avoid situations where adaptability is necessary. This doesn't mean anything regarding the quality of your play. You may be super adaptable, I have no idea. The fact that you avoid situations with decent players who know you shows me that you prefer to take adaptability out of the equation and play in situations where style and strategy play a bigger part. Many people, including myself, casino regulars, PLO regulars on any site, NLHE cash game players who play the same stakes, and homegame players are in situations where adaptability is necessary to counter other "winning" players because we definitely will be running into the same players over and over.

I like your points on hit and runners. That was a secondary point I made in relation to the absence of long sessions. I like long sessions sometimes. I did not intend to express that I think hit n runners are the sole reason for the lack of longer sessions. Many people play shorter sessions because they play one way every time. It doesn't take long to spot them, so they get up after a very short session and do it at another table. This is not great poker. It is however a decent strategy to beat anonymous, online poker games. So, as you can see, the very important skill of adaptability is nothing. I guess I'm a purist, but I'm sure anyone could see how this makes the game different.

Thanks for acknowledging the merits of my posts. And, for the record,I don't think anyone said that playing anonymous poker doesn't alter the game dynamics. I just don't think the game dynamics change to the extent that you think they do.

I prefer to play in situations that are the most +EV for me, and playing with players that know my game generally doesn't maximize my EV. I generally make out fine when playing with people that know my game, but I prefer juicier opportunities if I can find them.

Even though I try to avoid playing with "familiars", I still need to be adaptable at any given table at Bovada when there isn't significant player turnover. It doesn't happen very often, but it happens. At the stakes that I play, people recognize your patterns pretty quickly if you don't mix things up --- so I can play that game, too. I just prefer not to have to.

-HooDooKoo
 
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billyboy313

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The way Bovada hides player names and makes it a mystery who you are playing against each table you sit at makes it hard to be tracked. This feature alone makes Bovada an interesting choice. However once in a tournament I feel they could give players a random name that they keep the entire tournament when tables change you still know who your opponents are.
 
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HooDooKoo

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I play at bovada mostly zone poker. Where I take a very aggressive approach in late position and attempt to steal blinds about 98% of the time. I feel that being anonymous at zone poker along with the constant changing of players is an advantage to playing extremely aggressive poker. If I make blind steals anywhere near that amount even at regular tables at bovada players will start playing back at you. Also my cbet rate on the flop at zone poker is extremely higher, Also I hit n run i.e. go south a lot on zone poker when I double up I leave table and come back with max buy in a few seconds later.
Playing that way has allowed me to increase my BR at Bovada from 5 $5 tickets to slightly over $600 now along with 2 separate $500 cash outs that were by far the fastest cash outs I have ever gotten since the Neteller debacle way before black Friday.

THIS. I alluded to this in the the 1st posth--the difference in known player vs. anonymous poker held sway in the effectiveness of aggression. Thanks for your opinion. I really find this subject fascinating.

I intended to edit the thread title after I wrote the post. I wanted to name this post Anonymous vs. Known Player Poker. Thread title fail. The subject of this thread seems like Bovada with the title and first few sentences of the first post.

The combination of zone poker and anonymity clearly creates additional opportunity to win just based on blind aggression. I don't play any zone poker, so I can't expound on that much --- but it seems pretty obvious.

Additionally, being the purist that you are, you should have as much trouble with zone-type poker (new table every hand) as you do with anonymous poker, as it creates a game dynamic that is very unlike that of standard poker.

-HooDooKoo
 
ScooperNova

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The combination of zone poker and anonymity clearly creates additional opportunity to win just based on blind aggression. I don't play any zone poker, so I can't expound on that much --- but it seems pretty obvious.

Additionally, being the purist that you are, you should have as much trouble with zone-type poker (new table every hand) as you do with anonymous poker, as it creates a game dynamic that is very unlike that of standard poker.

-HooDooKoo

I'm not a big fan of zone poker either.
 
ScooperNova

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I was thinkng about what you said earlier about screen name changes. You said they were allowed on party poker and Cake. I don't think these are considered good choices for US players.

Do notes still follow players after screen name changes on the sites mentioned? If they do, its no longer a way to become anonymous to some players.

And donks would still be embarrassed when they're all in on the flop and have to turn over a runner runner flush draw. Maybe anonymous is better in that regard.
 
EA2USN

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Cake i.e. revolution network no longer allows player name changes and hasn't for over a year
 
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I hate the anonymity - being a live player trying to put the time in to become good enough online to live on I am already giving away one of my strengths which is being able to look someone in the eye or just sense their strength or weakness in person. I am trying Carbon and Full Flush because it is important to me to have a book on all my opponents, but I am leaning toward going back to Bovada for their variety of games and traffic on cash and tourneys as most have said.
 
wagon596

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I decided not to read through the back and forth conversation.

I decided just to say how I feel and why. I like it and it's because I'm not a shark, I'm just a little fish swimming in a pool of sharks. But since I have my water camo on, they don't know who I am.

Take care
 
or3o1990

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Is this topic posted in light of the recent news article that was posted?

I just skimmed the article but if bad players loose more on an anonymous site than they would on a site with player id's I'm leaning towards this being a great thing(for good players). I've only played for real money on bovada so I don't know any of the differences created by playing against players that you can identify. Other than the lack of a HUD I don't see how it would be much different.
 
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freestocks

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Cool. This thread started right before that article. I prefer having a nickname rather than anonymity, but that's what I'm used to. I like Bovada. But it is different.
 
ScooperNova

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Is this topic posted in light of the recent news article that was posted?

I just skimmed the article but if bad players loose more on an anonymous site than they would on a site with player id's I'm leaning towards this being a great thing(for good players). I've only played for real money on bovada so I don't know any of the differences created by playing against players that you can identify. Other than the lack of a HUD I don't see how it would be much different.

This post is totally unrelated to the news you are talking about. This thread was here before that story I'm pretty sure.
 
ScooperNova

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I decided not to read through the back and forth conversation.

I decided just to say how I feel and why. I like it and it's because I'm not a shark, I'm just a little fish swimming in a pool of sharks. But since I have my water camo on, they don't know who I am.

Take care

I appreciate and value your input. You probably didn't miss much from not reading the whole thread. Lol.
 
ScooperNova

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I think my theory on player embarrassment as related to anonymous poker is at least partly to blame for this--
https://www.cardschat.com/news/bad-players-lose-more-8888

Also, contrary to an earlier post, I think a screen name that follows you around and identifies you to other players can certainly be a source of embarrassment.
 
or3o1990

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I think my theory on player embarrassment as related to anonymous poker is at least partly to blame for this--
https://www.cardschat.com/news/bad-players-lose-more-8888

Also, contrary to an earlier post, I think a screen name that follows you around and identifies you to other players can certainly be a source of embarrassment.

I found the article pretty interesting. And your right about the embarrassment factor. If no one knows who if some rich guy who's getting pissed that the guy on his left is running him over and the guy starts shoving garbage only to bust and rebuy and bust again. He has the advantage of blowing of his steam and not having to feel accountable for anything but the money after leaving the table.

I like the anonymity factor. It forces people to actively take notes instead of just reading a HUD. So if you can buckle down and pay attention to your opponents you can gain an edge in that perspective.
 
ScooperNova

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I love your avatar of Doc oR3o1990.
 
ScooperNova

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I found the article pretty interesting. And your right about the embarrassment factor. If no one knows who if some rich guy who's getting pissed that the guy on his left is running him over and the guy starts shoving garbage only to bust and rebuy and bust again. He has the advantage of blowing of his steam and not having to feel accountable for anything but the money after leaving the table.

I like the anonymity factor. It forces people to actively take notes instead of just reading a HUD. So if you can buckle down and pay attention to your opponents you can gain an edge in that perspective.

I'm not a big fan of HUDs either. I don't do much multi tabling and prefer note taking. I think HUDs are for A. multi tablers and B. Regular MTT players and C. people who don't have good poker sense.

When it's anonymous though, my notes go away after one session. In my experience, it seems like short sessions are the norm. I don't feel like I get great value for my notes for this reason. Now if I played MTTs regularly, my opinion would be very different. I think notes can be valuable when they follow a player over the course of a long MTT.

I appreciate your opinion on this subject. "I'm your Huckleberry".
 
or3o1990

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I'm not a big fan of HUDs either. I don't do much multi tabling and prefer note taking. I think HUDs are for A. multi tablers and B. Regular MTT players and C. people who don't have good poker sense.

When it's anonymous though, my notes go away after one session. In my experience, it seems like short sessions are the norm. I don't feel like I get great value for my notes for this reason. Now if I played MTTs regularly, my opinion would be very different. I think notes can be valuable when they follow a player over the course of a long MTT.

I appreciate your opinion on this subject. "I'm your Huckleberry".

I wouldn't say that I'm not a fan of HUD's I just don't need one currently because I only play at Bovada. If I switched sites I'd probably invest because I'd hate to feel that I was at a disadvantage, which I would be. I think HUD's are just for players who don't mind spending a hundred bucks to level the playing field with other HUD users and to have an advantage over those who don't use them.

As far as note taking on bovada, I mostly just color code my opponents to keep it simple. If they're doing something more notable I'll write it down for sure. I don't play cash but I think for MTT's and SNG's it's still a pretty useful but limited tool indeed. If your not color coding already you should try it. "You're a daisy if you do!"
 
ScooperNova

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I wouldn't say that I'm not a fan of HUD's I just don't need one currently because I only play at Bovada. If I switched sites I'd probably invest because I'd hate to feel that I was at a disadvantage, which I would be. I think HUD's are just for players who don't mind spending a hundred bucks to level the playing field with other HUD users and to have an advantage over those who don't use them.

As far as note taking on bovada, I mostly just color code my opponents to keep it simple. If they're doing something more notable I'll write it down for sure. I don't play cash but I think for MTT's and SNG's it's still a pretty useful but limited tool indeed. If your not color coding already you should try it. "You're a daisy if you do!"

I've used a very simple system for years. My color coding and notes are probably too simple, and improving them would be a great idea.
 
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I have no problem with the anonymity... I made 14 grand on bovada in 2 weeks mostly playing $1/2, 0.50/1, and 0.25/0.50... If you need a huge hand history to figure out how to exploit your opponents than maybe your just not that smart... The reason many US players recommend Bovada is because of the fast payouts and the fact that you can't find any action like it on the US market.
 
EA2USN

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I have no problem with the anonymity... I made 14 grand on bovada in 2 weeks mostly playing $1/2, 0.50/1, and 0.25/0.50... If you need a huge hand history to figure out how to exploit your opponents than maybe your just not that smart... The reason many US players recommend Bovada is because of the fast payouts and the fact that you can't find any action like it on the US market.

Exactly. Fastest US payouts, with the most action/trafic of any site for US players. If your in the US and not playing Bovada then you are missing out on the best games available.
 
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