is 4x BB a bad play

gordo30

gordo30

Rock Star
To keep a long story short i was dealt pkt Q,s in a late position with only 1 caller and 3 to act. Button folds ,Sb calls,BB folds and mid position calls to my 4x bb raise. The flop hits 2h/10s/5h and Sb goes all in,mid position folds and after 10 secs i call.Sb turns over 3/4off and the turns Kh rivers Ad and I'm out to the straight
After being angry for a couple of minutes a realise that the guys play isn't so terrible after all. With me making that 4xbb raise i was telling him almost that i had a good hand as i would say about 80% of they plays involve a strong ace and with him going allin i had to have hit something in order to call that bet.
Thinking now there were 5 possible hands that i was dead to from the flop and with the flush and straight draws i was only getting myself into trouble calling that play.It was only the 3rd hand of the tournament and all the stacks were pretty equal at that stage.
I think that the raise i made got me into trouble and if i had raised more i might not have got the callers but any that did were probably playing K's and A's and i may have taken it down after the flop.
There's no point me calling the guy a donkey as he went on to finish 2nd in the 10k event but i simply got beat to my play which got him to the river and bad luck that he sucked out on me.

Should i have raised more or stuck with the statutory 4xbb raise.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
What?!!! If I was was him and you raised 4X the big blind, I would fold me 3, 4 offsuit regardless if I think you have a strong hand or not. You still would have won if the Ace (or six) didn't come up. It was a bad call by him but a good play by you.
 
gord962

gord962

Legend
You did nothing wrong in this hand. You put your money in while ahead and got sucked out. Nothing wrong with your play. He had an open ended straight after the flop, but still needed to draw 1 of the 8 cards he required to make the straight. He should never have been in the hand in the first place being that you raised the pot enough to say your hand was strong and the donkey called with garbage. Most of the time you do want this guy to call your QQ with 3-4 os, he just got lucky this time. If I had Q-Q I'd go all-in against 3-4 os every time while I am ahead after the flop.
If you start raising any more than what you did, the only callers you will get a re AA, KK and AK, which you don't want. Keep it small (3-4 X BB and you will get callers and take down pots.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
gordo30 said:
Should i have raised more or stuck with the statutory 4xbb raise.

(If you really want some true blue, non-results-oriented opinions, leave off the results next time. Anyone can speculate if they know how it ends. FP taught me that.)

Some people would say "Raise more." It depends on the amount of the blinds and the relative stacks. If the blinds were 10 and you bet 40, it may not have been enough for most chasers. If the blinds were 100 and you bet 400, you did just fine.

Having said that, your flop call of the push was questionable. The straight, flush, and set of 10's possibilities would have me hitting the brakes. Both Sklansky & Harrington say you shouldn't enter into any close decisions for all your chips until late in the tourney and you are in the money. Some would say I'm wrong here, but it's good enough for me if it's good enough for those 2 guys.

It goes without saying that your opponent's PF call and flop push were extremely poor plays and he got extremely lucky. Mark him with a note and hope to see him again.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
If you didn't have a pocket pair, you'd have folded after the all-in and wouldn't know what the SB had. Would they have made a bad play then? You cant always wait til a big hand falls in your lap to accumulate chips. Their play didn't work and they got lucky, but you need to make a play or 2 sometimes to win a tournament.

And no, you dont need to raise more - apart from the result the hand played perfect ;).
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
He called preflop with bad odds, and then got all his money in with a draw....you did absolutely nothing wrong, and he did everything wrong gordo. Don't stress about this hand.
 
gordo30

gordo30

Rock Star
That's it exactly he made his play and hoped that i was playing the A/K or similar hand and could not have called his all in bet. But the fact he went all in was in my mind the best play he could have done as it committed him to see all 5 cards. As the flop improved his hand and he must still have thought his 3/4 were live cards then he did have a lot of outs. Still that early in a tournament and with even stacks my best play was to fold to that bet.

I must say lately i have been placing consistently in MTT,s by avoiding such plays, in the end i was only committed to the pot with 80 chips.
Its not the result that,s bugging me here its the situation that i created for myself the suckout is something we all got to live with. What i mean is that by raising 4xBB i gave him enough information to make that play and he played it very well in the respect that had i had A/k,A/Q orA/j i couldn,t see that bet.
 
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bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
MrSticker said:
It goes without saying that your opponent's PF call and flop push were extremely poor plays and he got extremely lucky. Mark him with a note and hope to see him again.


Ditto that!
 
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