dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
I didn't make up the numbers, I reported what one of the leading tracking sites reported. HSDB may be more accurate, I won't argue that because I don't really know. But I'm curious where such a huge discrepancy comes from. Not to mention that Dwan has likely won more than Cates' total $7M in a single session or two in the Macau games.Your numbers are very off!
Dwan - http://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/durrrr.aspx
Cates - http://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/jungleman12.aspx
To Sum It Up By Profits
Dwan - FTP $2,165,475 (1079095 hands)
Cates - FTP $7,482,531 (286364 hands) + Stars $661,529 (106373 hands)
So Cates has a much larger amount in winnings and about in a 1/4 roughly of the # of hands that Dwan has played and is also a sizable winner on Stars
You cannot compare Cates V Dwan by Hendon or GPI because Cates basically plays no tourneys live and is a online player all the way, So Dwan is rated higher in popularity but clearly is not nowhere near the player Cates is online just goes to support my statement that Dwan is overrated!!! Cates is a much better player and if I was to choose to stake one or the other it wouldn't even be a contest! I would also like to add that Cates graph is very beautiful and Dwan's look like a roller coaster ride, Well I win the debate
But you can't discount PTR over HSDB because they favor your position, and then ignore GPI/HM because they don't. Or suggest that only online results matter, not live. Again, Cates could technically be the better player, certainly the more consistent player, but I still see no evidence that his overall results eclipse Dwan's.
Again, what truly defines the better player? Results, no? Please show me more of Cates' results. Show me that he's earned more at the tables, in total (live, online, cash, tourney), than Dwan, and I'll gladly concede the debate to you.
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bernotas22
Legend
Silver Level
What I don't understand is why you stick so much to the high points of Dwan which he has not sustained up to this date, while Cates has shown consistency and long term growth instead of huge swings, Now on to live just look at hendon mob results Dwan has far more cashes than Cates although Cates cashes include some large scores he does not play live and remains solely a online player basically while Dwan does both, another thing to think about is how much Dwan has lost in tourney buy-ins he has a lot of big scores in tourneys but think about how much of that money earned has been lost in buy-ins for events, So overall I think it's conclusive that Cates is the more consistent and aware player, Both are great in there own way, Daniel Negreanu himself says that he does not think Tom is one of the best in the world and that All the top pro heads up players just love the thought of playing him, Cates says he was good back in the day just like Blom may have been and that what he does now is not really too up to date, anyways here's an interesting interview with Cates talking about Dwan http://www.pokertube.com/videos/daniel-jungleman-cates-interview-on-tom-dwans-skill/
I enjoy the part at the end about Cates talking about Ben Grundy a successful player and how bad he is of a player online
I stand by the stats from high stakes db and Cates owns Dwan!!! Much better poker player and if Cates wanted to I am sure he could be an amazing tourney player except he does not play them too frequently so not much to go on, Also Cates says that Dwan is a live player pretty much and does not want to do the math of online etc. these days but he does have a lot of live connections in Macau etc. And he mainly plays those nowaday's so I would have to conclude based on the fact that Cates does not play tourneys or live cash very much that Dwan wins by default although I believe strongly that Cates may just be better in this aspect as well if he played in comparison to Dwan, Basically Cates is better and honestly tell me anyone who says he is not a good player!!! while there are those who think Dwan is not one of the best these days, Cates also says he doesn't take part in the argument of who is the best though for many reasons he does not mention, I like Cates attitude a lot and I can conclude again Cates>>>Dwan
I enjoy the part at the end about Cates talking about Ben Grundy a successful player and how bad he is of a player online
I stand by the stats from high stakes db and Cates owns Dwan!!! Much better poker player and if Cates wanted to I am sure he could be an amazing tourney player except he does not play them too frequently so not much to go on, Also Cates says that Dwan is a live player pretty much and does not want to do the math of online etc. these days but he does have a lot of live connections in Macau etc. And he mainly plays those nowaday's so I would have to conclude based on the fact that Cates does not play tourneys or live cash very much that Dwan wins by default although I believe strongly that Cates may just be better in this aspect as well if he played in comparison to Dwan, Basically Cates is better and honestly tell me anyone who says he is not a good player!!! while there are those who think Dwan is not one of the best these days, Cates also says he doesn't take part in the argument of who is the best though for many reasons he does not mention, I like Cates attitude a lot and I can conclude again Cates>>>Dwan
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dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Again, head against a boulder situation here. You've never budged before, why should things change now? But before I walk away, I'll address a couple of points that you seem to insist upon when I never said or implied any such thing:
I never even came close to implying that Dwan was one of the best in the world. I said he's in the top echelon of players in terms of overall results, which is indisputable. Daniel saying Dwan isn't the best is hardly the same thing as "pro's hating on Dwan and saying he's a bad player" which is what you imply.
Don't know that I or anyone else, Dwan included, considers him the best HU player either. Dwan's range of games however is pretty wide.
Wait, what? Now Dwan wins? But....
Who said Cates wasn't a good player? I said he was an awesome player. I just said he didn't have Dwan's results, and that's what many people measure success by. I can however tell you that many poker players question Cates' integrity after the Girah scandal.
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bernotas22
Legend
Silver Level
morris you contradict everything I say! on the Daniel Negreanu statement that was just an example of a player saying Dwan is not one of the best out there, other pro's also think this as Cates implies, I would like to edge towards ending the discussion because I see this could go on forever and you would still say I am wrong and you are correct! My beginning statement that you disagreed was that I said Dwan was overrated remember? I believe I clarified why I believe so and therefore I win the argument and your statement about him being one of the best out there remains true but that does not mean you cannot be overrated! This would be like calling a talented athlete in college overrated because of the hype that existed and the greatness they showed and in the long term they showed they could not maintain or build on that promise!!! That's what Dwan is somebody who used to be elite and is now no longer in that group yet remains regarded by casual players and observers as if he is still the same caliber player he used to be and there is no surprise for me that he loses a lot in these live cash games, he is playing those who probably don't fear him as much as poker pro's and have a lot more money than him and that sometimes lends itself to the poker pro being the fish although I would also add that a huge part of that reason is cause Dwan has fallen off and is no longer what he was!
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AcesUp747
Rock Star
Silver Level
WeenieSVK
Visionary
Silver Level
This is just unbelievable to me, how can anybody play for that big money... I cant sleep when I lose 10 dollars and that kids are losing millions sometimes And they still are able to HANDLE it and continue to play other day like nothing happened Maybe if I was multibillionaire I would, but I guess Dwan isnt It has to be so stressfull I cant even imagine.
And they still are able to HANDLE it and continue to play other day like nothing happened Maybe if I was multibillionaire I would, but I guess Dwan isnt It has to be so stressfull I cant even imagine.
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bernotas22
Legend
Silver Level
This is just unbelievable to me, how can anybody play for that big money... I cant sleep when I lose 10 dollars and that kids are losing millions sometimes
I think he may be staked for part of the money and will be staked again! So that may ease the stress he feels
jazzaxe
Legend
Silver Level
He is an educated gambler but a gambler primarily. At that level, you will constantly defy the odds in order to win. Chip Reese had the same mind set. He was interviewed a year before his death by full tilt poker, he told them the greatest feeling in the world was winning a high stakes pot. He said the second greatest feeling in the world was losing a high stakes pot. Definitely hooked on adrenaline.
CATLICKER
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Don't know you yet, I'm just going to assume your tongue is planted firmly in cheek !!!
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bernotas22
Legend
Silver Level
Losing SOOO much is just awful. If I was Tom Dwan I would go away after losing 200k. But I am not Tom Dwan
200k is nothing to Dwan, if he was worried about losing 200k he would have never gotten to where he is
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xXShannonAXx
Rock Star
Silver Level
200k is hardly anything to them there talking about 3million here thats a huge chunk of changeOriginally Posted by andersonrut
Losing SOOO much is just awful. If I was Tom Dwan I would go away after losing 200k. But I am not Tom Dwan
rdm4k
Visionary
Silver Level
this famous highstakes players got loads of sponsors doing that.
Do do u really think they loose 3 m dollar of their own money in one session??
most of them dont even own such amount of money guys.
At the time of FTP I am sure that when they were losing on the online HS they could just ask a re-load to the boss (plus the insane RB they may have). It's a big marketing business as well!!
Do do u really think they loose 3 m dollar of their own money in one session??
most of them dont even own such amount of money guys.
At the time of FTP I am sure that when they were losing on the online HS they could just ask a re-load to the boss (plus the insane RB they may have). It's a big marketing business as well!!