So, a man entered the 2021 WSOP Ladies Event...

Navin Sarabjeet

Navin Sarabjeet

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Well, the guy has $10k to burn for a $1k event :D:D:D
That makes the prize pool bigger for the ladies :p:p:p
 
Shells

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Well, the guy has $10k to burn for a $1k event :D:D:D
That makes the prize pool bigger for the ladies :p:p:p


True. He did have good intentions of taking his winnings from the tournament and donating it to Womens Charities - 'good intentions' in my opinion. BUT, he forgot he had to make it to the money first.
 
antonis32123

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Some dudes have won some Ladies events , maybe all events should follow the WSOP example and charge men x10 more , or even more to discourage some men :) Now why do these dudes play in women's events is awkward to me
 
smallfrie

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I am against ladies events. Poker is a mental game and men and women are equal and no one should be barred or charged more in any event based on gender.
 
lcid86

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It seems his intentions were good. As someone who attended an all male college which was eventually forced to admit women, I understand why some people would be upset. An event which was special to some people is no longer the same.
 
D

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Ooooof!

Personally – I anticipate you might have seen me coming, Shells - I don’t buy this, ‘good intentions’ or not. Obviously, guys have previous form with this, a need to impose themselves. What would be the best scenario? A clumsy and ill-conceived attempt at being supportive of women?

If Hammers claims to enter was to support women’s causes then why do it as a disruptor who would irritate many in the room? Also, potentially alienating his wife and daughter somewhat from the field also. I bothered to check whether there were photos of Hammers, his wife and daughter entering the event together. I could not find a single one. The only image of Hammers (as in the article) is him sipping a ‘women’s drink’ after his elimination.

Hammers could have handled everything differently. As others have said, he could have talked to poker news before the event started, pretend he was about to enter but explained he was there to support his wife and daughter and he wanted to donate $10,000 (his entry fee) to the winner who in turn would donate the sum to the women’s charity of choice. Heck, he could have simply brought a couple of friends to loudly rail his wife and daughter. Start a tradition, husbands, family members and friends loudly railing their spouses, mothers etc..

Women’s events were/are supported by the industry to bring more females into the game. All are aware women have traditionally faced a hostile poker environment and the hostility hinders the expansion of the game overall. As it is technically illegal to bar men a steady stream (not a majority) of guys have injected themselves into women’s tournaments. To prove what? What is the harm or damage being done? Why is this threatening to anyone?

Here’s a short and balanced article from Casino Org Blog noting the history of women in poker and the difficulties they have faced.

https://www.casino.org/blog/why-arent-there-more-women-playing-poker/
 
azforlife

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I am against ladies events. Poker is a mental game and men and women are equal and no one should be barred or charged more in any event based on gender.
100% sorta irrelevant to the O.P but highly agree! It's the same with chess, OMG Chess is even so blatantly offensive I forgot the exact details but a woman GM is like 3 tiers below a normal GM, sorry for my wording, not sure how else to say it. Effin' Chess ppl? I honestly think Women are smarter in a lot of things, especially games, no pun intended
 
Kenzie 96

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As stated in one of the above posts, it did give a bit of a bump to the prize pool & his stated intention to donate any winnings to some group or cause benefiting women sounds ok, but we will never know for sure cause the fish lost to a bunch of girls.
JUST KIDDING, really JUST KIDDING.

I see an article on this subject & I just assume it's another clown seeking attention.
 
smallfrie

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100% sorta irrelevant to the O.P but highly agree! It's the same with chess, OMG Chess is even so blatantly offensive I forgot the exact details but a woman GM is like 3 tiers below a normal GM, sorry for my wording, not sure how else to say it. Effin' Chess ppl? I honestly think Women are smarter in a lot of things, especially games, no pun intended
"100% Sorta" lol
 
Shells

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Ooooof!

Personally – I anticipate you might have seen me coming, Shells - I don’t buy this, ‘good intentions’ or not. Obviously, guys have previous form with this, a need to impose themselves. What would be the best scenario? A clumsy and ill-conceived attempt at being supportive of women?

If Hammers claims to enter was to support women’s causes then why do it as a disruptor who would irritate many in the room? Also, potentially alienating his wife and daughter somewhat from the field also. I bothered to check whether there were photos of Hammers, his wife and daughter entering the event together. I could not find a single one. The only image of Hammers (as in the article) is him sipping a ‘women’s drink’ after his elimination.

Hammers could have handled everything differently. As others have said, he could have talked to Poker News before the event started, pretend he was about to enter but explained he was there to support his wife and daughter and he wanted to donate $10,000 (his entry fee) to the winner who in turn would donate the sum to the women’s charity of choice. Heck, he could have simply brought a couple of friends to loudly rail his wife and daughter. Start a tradition, husbands, family members and friends loudly railing their spouses, mothers etc..

Women’s events were/are supported by the industry to bring more females into the game. All are aware women have traditionally faced a hostile poker environment and the hostility hinders the expansion of the game overall. As it is technically illegal to bar men a steady stream (not a majority) of guys have injected themselves into women’s tournaments. To prove what? What is the harm or damage being done? Why is this threatening to anyone?

Here’s a short and balanced article from Casino Org Blog noting the history of women in poker and the difficulties they have faced.

https://www.casino.org/blog/why-arent-there-more-women-playing-poker/

Of course I was expecting you! The door was unlocked and everything! :D


The actions by Mr. Hammers (and other men who have preceded him) may have been a stunt but somehow I doubt it...just my personal opinion of course. There is nothing leading me to that conclusion other than giving the guy a chance to actually see if he would have donated all winnings to charity. However, he couldn't prove his intentions since he was knocked out before the money but he did increase the prizepool, so there is that.

I have read the article and so many of the statements ring true for me (I doubt I am alone). If anyone is one bit interested in understanding why there aren't more women in poker, this article is an easy read and pretty much says what some women likely feel (not always) most times. (also included in the article is a short 'tongue in cheek' video by Marle Cordeiro)
 
Debi

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I am against ladies events. Poker is a mental game and men and women are equal and no one should be barred or charged more in any event based on gender.

Having a ladies event is not stating that men and women are not equal. It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It is all about trying to get more women to play poker - which is great for the game. I support ladies events 100%.

A lot of women are not comfortable learning to play poker with men. Men treat us differently and with a whole lot less respect. It is way worse than you can imagine unless you are woman who has experienced it over and over again.

Some women play 1 time and never play again. We want to change that.
 
Shells

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Having a ladies event is not stating that men and women are not equal. It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It is all about trying to get more women to play poker - which is great for the game. I support ladies events 100%.

A lot of women are not comfortable learning to play poker with men. Men treat us differently and with a whole lot less respect. It is way worse than you can imagine unless you are woman who has experienced it over and over again.

Some women play 1 time and never play again. We want to change that.

If I could have given this a dozen thumbs-up, I would!

I am likely one of those who will never enter another live tournament.
 
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some men think they will have an advantage in women's tournaments)
 
Navin Sarabjeet

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Of course I was expecting you! The door was unlocked and everything! :D


The actions by Mr. Hammers (and other men who have preceded him) may have been a stunt but somehow I doubt it...just my personal opinion of course. There is nothing leading me to that conclusion other than giving the guy a chance to actually see if he would have donated all winnings to charity. However, he couldn't prove his intentions since he was knocked out before the money but he did increase the prizepool, so there is that.

I have read the article and so many of the statements ring true for me (I doubt I am alone). If anyone is one bit interested in understanding why there aren't more women in poker, this article is an easy read and pretty much says what some women likely feel (not always) most times. (also included in the article is a short 'tongue in cheek' video by Marle Cordeiro)


Even Doug Polk entered a Ladies Event in the past :p

These guys are hilarious :D:D:D
 
smallfrie

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If I could have given this a dozen thumbs-up, I would!

I am likely one of those who will never enter another live tournament.
Sorry you feel that way. I don't know what happened to make you feel that way, but in my experience there are well run places and/or events that do their best to make all feel welcome and comfortable and there are poorly run events and places that don't. There are events and places I have played one time and never will play again, because of the attitudes of the people running the event/or place don't do their job.
There are places that have known abusive players, and/or mean drunks that are regulars that disrespect dealers and players and instead of management taking action they just allow it because that person is either a friend of management or is loaded and they want their money, and that behavior from management creates a culture that infects the whole place. I have been to many places like that. I know there are things that make women feel welcome or unwelcome that may be different in general to men, but I don't think separating men and women in events is an answer. I hope you reconsider about live events in the future and shop around and find a place where you feel comfortable and welcome.
 
smallfrie

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Having a ladies event is not stating that men and women are not equal. It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It is all about trying to get more women to play poker - which is great for the game. I support ladies events 100%.

A lot of women are not comfortable learning to play poker with men. Men treat us differently and with a whole lot less respect. It is way worse than you can imagine unless you are woman who has experienced it over and over again.

Some women play 1 time and never play again. We want to change that.
My personal opinion is that separate events based on gender is not the answer, and skirting laws against it by charging one gender more than the other is not a good look for the WSOP or good for poker. I would love to see more people in poker and a mix that is more representative of the general population, I don't know how to bring that about but I am pretty sure it isn't having a ladies event at the WSOP. Good luck while you are out there I hope you win a lot of money! :)
 
D

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Of course I was expecting you! The door was unlocked and everything! :D


The actions by Mr. Hammers (and other men who have preceded him) may have been a stunt but somehow I doubt it...just my personal opinion of course. There is nothing leading me to that conclusion other than giving the guy a chance to actually see if he would have donated all winnings to charity. However, he couldn't prove his intentions since he was knocked out before the money but he did increase the prizepool, so there is that.

I have read the article and so many of the statements ring true for me (I doubt I am alone). If anyone is one bit interested in understanding why there aren't more women in poker, this article is an easy read and pretty much says what some women likely feel (not always) most times. (also included in the article is a short 'tongue in cheek' video by Marle Cordeiro)

Thanks, Shells and Debi for the replies and perspective.

All I can say is I find it ludicrous we are all still having such a discussion in 2021. The one positive is by accident or design it has raised the profile of women in the game again which should cause many to think, even briefly about the issue.

Glad you like the article - it was well written. I appreciated while detailing the issues women face, they also said it unlikely fields will ever be fifty fifty due to the fact poker appeals to certain type, which is fair enough. However if the needle could be moved by say 10% the benefit to the industry in terms of increased players and revenue would be notable.

Kind of ironic Kelly Minkin faced issues at the WSOP as we discussed the above…
 
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My personal opinion is that separate events based on gender is not the answer, and skirting laws against it by charging one gender more than the other is not a good look for the WSOP or good for poker. I would love to see more people in poker and a mix that is more representative of the general population, I don't know how to bring that about but I am pretty sure it isn't having a ladies event at the WSOP. Good luck while you are out there I hope you win a lot of money! :)

I disagree in that I think it is a 'great look' for the WSOP. Who doesn't but for some guys? And at this point I hardly think it a majority that begrudge the ladies having their own event.

Earlier this year LIPS Nevada State Poker Championship for women drew record attendees so the fact is these tournaments are drawing women to the live game. I'm not in the least bothered if this does or doesn't sit well with some and I wish LIPS (Ladies International Poker Series Tour) all the best in their endeavors.
 
dallam

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It's like I'm entering women's toilet because I want to be the one who will clean it so well after I used it.
 
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Entering a "ladys event" as a guy is just awkward, even if its legally allowed. What part of the title was it, that someone failed to understand? :)
 
jaymfc

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I guess my first response was censored :eek: sick :eek:

Having a ladies event is not stating that men and women are not equal. It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It is all about trying to get more women to play poker - which is great for the game. I support ladies events 100%.

A lot of women are not comfortable learning to play poker with men. Men treat us differently and with a whole lot less respect. It is way worse than you can imagine unless you are woman who has experienced it over and over again.

Some women play 1 time and never play again. We want to change that.
oh I get it, let them be comfortable while learning before facing the pros.

If I could have given this a dozen thumbs-up, I would!

I am likely one of those who will never enter another live tournament.
well just enter ladies' events until you are comfortable enough to attempt it again.
stand your ground ;)
My personal opinion is that separate events based on gender is not the answer, and skirting laws against it by charging one gender more than the other is not a good look for the WSOP or good for poker. I would love to see more people in poker and a mix that is more representative of the general population, I don't know how to bring that about but I am pretty sure it isn't having a ladies event at the WSOP. Good luck while you are out there I hope you win a lot of money! :)
please explain further, as you can see most have no clue about that kind of thinking.
do you believe in events based on weight or age or skill level?
It's like I'm entering women's toilet because I want to be the one who will clean it so well after I used it.
I agree with your point but don't try it, your wife called in and said you don't do it at home :p JK sir ;)
Entering a "ladys event" as a guy is just awkward, even if its legally allowed. What part of the title was it, that someone failed to understand? :)
can you imagine being the male winner of a ladies' event, how proud you must be:rolleyes:
I would immediately go to a school and beat up some kids to show how tough I was :rolleyes:
although most of the ladies' in a ladies' event are learning there are many that I would not like to face and most of those who enter the open to all events are way more skilled than most of us freeroll ho's ;)
the women of CC regularly kick my butt in our games ;)
 
Phoenix Wright

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Interesting article, but why are men even allowed into Ladies' events? One could argue "why are ladies allowed in Men's events? [but this seems like most every event since poker is currently male-dominated]

However, I feel like that simplistic approach is wrong. Imagine if there was something like a poker "little league" with poker events for children, but then some middle-aged dude shows up to participate...wouldn't everyone suggest that they shouldn't be eligible?

I kind of like the idea of specific events to spread the game (especially charity events like this one) and right now, there are so many more men in poker than women (for whatever reason, but I predict it is mostly for cultural reasoning) that I think it makes sense to feature women-only events.

I don't even think it is (or should be) about gender, but rather creative ways to expand the popularity of the game and finding ways to make the community more friendly and good for poker. Just my opinion... :)
 
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