Poker ruled a skill-based game and not "gambling" under IGBA federal statute

[ProphetEyes]

i hope this means well will be back at pokerstars soon! carbon just doesnt do it for me. shitty tournament structures are killing me. i miss 10 min blinds. 7 minutes is lame as the standard on merge

 

[Charade You Are]

Vote for poker in this article:

LIVE POLL

Q: Should online poker be legal in the US?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nce-new-york-judge-rules-upping-internet-ante

84% yes - 14% no

 

[Debi]

^^ done

 

[BigCountryAA]

This really is great news for poker players everywhere. I hope rulings like this will help push a bill through to get us (usa players) playing safely online again.

 

[imafin]

Nice to see good news every once in a while!

But im afraid i dont feel the battle won until i can go back to pokers stars or pokerroom...

RIGHT DIRECTION thou

Happy card playing all!

 

[Loonbat]

This is a big step but there are many more to be taken. The nice thing is that this cannot be appealed (as an appeal can only happen if there is a guilty verdict and a sentence), SO this case may act as precedent for other cases.

 

[Charade You Are]

This is a big step but there are many more to be taken. The nice thing is that this cannot be appealed (as an appeal can only happen if there is a guilty verdict and a sentence), SO this case may act as precedent for other cases.

Not true. The prosecutor has not decided whether he will appeal.

There was a guilty verdict, the judge dismissed the indictment and set aside the verdict. In that case, the prosecution may appeal. If the appellate court reverses the dismissal, the guilty verdict can be reinstated.

See the conclusion on the last page of the Memorandum of Judgement the OP linked in the first post.

 

[Loonbat]

Not true. The prosecutor has not decided whether he will appeal.

There was a guilty verdict, the judge dismissed the indictment and set aside the verdict. In that case, the prosecution may appeal. If the appellate court reverses the dismissal, the guilty verdict can be reinstated.

See the conclusion on the last page of the Memorandum of Judgement the OP linked in the first post.

Thank you for this correction.

In a nutshell, though (given 120 pages I did not read), the judge basically argued that the law didn't apply given the skill nature of the game? Is this accurate?

 

[MiddlePair]

Great news. It kills me when people argue that poker is based on luck.

 

[jazzaxe]

You can wager at golf, pool, bowling and eating contests. If could be argued that in order to win at these, you must have the skills to win. Wagering is gambling, despite the amount of skill involved, because the outcome is seldom certain. There is less luck involved than casino games because the outcome on those are all in favor of the house and luck will only play out in the short run. I think that gambling should be allowed but it should be structured, so that the player is not defrauded by the operators.

 

[Charade You Are]

Thank you for this correction.

In a nutshell, though (given 120 pages I did not read), the judge basically argued that the law didn't apply given the skill nature of the game? Is this accurate?

If you have to put it in a nutshell, yes.

 

[Charade You Are]

Article on the legal ramifications of the "poker is a game of skill" ruling.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/08/maurice-verstandig-significance-judge-poker-gambling-13291.htm

It helps that Mr. DiCristiana’s attorney provided a poker expert who walked the court through a painstakingly detailed analyses of strategy and probability in hold’em games, from position-centric plays to the art of reading one’s opponent. It also helps that the government’s competing expert appears to have been seriously overmatched, having apparently held to the seemingly stubborn conclusion that “the relevant frame of reference for determining whether skill or chance predominates is a single hand.”

LOL - the Government

 

[Panamajoe]

Yeah, the conclusions are the important part. If this judges opinion prevails up the "chain" poker will be golden.... eventually.

 

[dj11]

Have read the first 50 pages of the big 120 pager... Hard to say any legal opinion is interesting stuff, but there are a whole lot of interesting parts.

I will guess that never again will any legal briefing so detailed be attempted, on on its face this ruling may stand. But it is a guess based on less than half reading.

 

[InfamousAmos]

Interesting but law makers will still push to regulate and defininatly tax it as gambling as it is in casinos. Hopefully we can get some legitmate online real $$ going on in the US

 

[pokerchris]

Federal Judge Jack Weinstein declared that Online Poker is not gambling

http://www.4flush.com/online-poker-news/10306/10306

 

[itsmebobd]

This is so awesome. So if I am reading this correctly, federal law supercedes state law. Kinda like marijuana laws, the federal law prohibits it and its therefore illegal even if colorado and washington say its not. So in Indiana where its illegal to run a home game, we can now run one (provided the house makes no profit)

 

[TheEngineer]

This is so awesome. So if I am reading this correctly, federal law supercedes state law. Kinda like marijuana laws, the federal law prohibits it and its therefore illegal even if colorado and washington say its not. So in Indiana where its illegal to run a home game, we can now run one (provided the house makes no profit)

Not necessarily. It can help in states where betting on games of chance is unlawful, but states can still make it unlawful to wager on games of skill. Still, it was welcome news, for sure.

 

[IJustWantToTalk]

Hells yeah. That's Great News!

 

[Froggy]

The decision was REVERSED in August 2013, unfortunately.

See Opinion of the US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit reversing US District Court Judge Weinstein (EDNY) re application of Illegal Gambling Business Act (IGBA) to Poker:

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/us-court-of-appeal-2nd-cir-opinion-re-90639/



Sorry to be the bearer of bad news in the thread.

 

[Froggy]

... but the good news is

...that the reversing opinion doesn't refute the skill-based argument. The basis of the new opinion is that NY state law applies, not federal, and that the arguments related to the federal IGBA act are simply moot.

I wanted to clarify my post above, but couldn't figure out how to edit.

 

[magicius]

that judge is THE most stupid women in whole universe.. skill based? ye right

 

[Turbon]

Amazing enginner.

 

[grilldoggy]

Poker is brains before luck. Luck helps, brains win in the end.

 

[chipstacker]

Isn't it both

I think that they are being vague for a reason. Congress will probably be able to lean whichever way they want in any case now. All they did was keep their options open.