Mass Sitout Scheduled For Nov. 5th @ Pstars!!

[neil1603]

Just to give the sit out a sanity check. I can play at pokerstars and I won't boycott them in any way.

At the 5nl stakes I play PS site tells me I will pay 4.15% capped at $1

At 888 where I also play 4nl I will pay 6% capped at $4

While I'm worse off at Pokerstars than I was it is still a good deal.

 

[A2345Razz]

A voice of reason in this thread.

Was Marie Antoinette the voice of reason when she exclaimed, "let them eat cake....?"


I mean obviously if Pokerstars continues on this path, I would wholeheartedly be in favor of people opting to use another site, but you guys act as if communications with a corporation or selective boycotts or the like have never produced positive results for consumers, and this is dead wrong.

No one is saying it is the only tool by which to change Amaya's approach, but it is certainly one which may work in getting their attention.

 

[S3mper]

Anyway, so are you going to make a comment as to Pokerstars actions or going to snipe on the particulars of a single post? Why you guys are so preoccupied with poo pooing the process, but totally ignoring the problem confronting all of us is beyond me.

We'll be waiting....your thoughts on Amaya's latest money grab?

They are right that the sit outs just won't work, I am not really a fan of sit outs//protest, However I do believe players should voice their opinions on the or other subjects.

I think a petition would be more effective then a sit out especially a unorganized sit out of one day. If you were to petition the only way to get potential change out of it would be an extremely organized boycott and have everyone do as Ben said and play somewhere else.

Which is never going to happen... online poker players wouldn't even stay away from The Venetian when the CEO tries to ge tonline poker players banned.. Were just to damn EV dependent... The EV of leaving Stars because of a increase in rake and decrease of rake is =EV when they are still the best deal.

Just like boycotting the Venetian was -EV to players because the Venetian has some good tournies...

 

[A2345Razz]

Just to give the sit out a sanity check. I can play at Pokerstars and I won't boycott them in any way.

At the 5nl stakes I play PS site tells me I will pay 4.15% capped at $1

At 888 where I also play 4nl I will pay 6% capped at $4

While I'm worse off at Pokerstars than I was it is still a good deal.

GL running up your 80 dollar stake on the 5th so you can move up.

You should be worried about a lot more than just the rake at one stake on full ring play. For instance the rake just went up massively on HU play meaning less games get created and less games/seats will be there for you to play at certain hours. Also, spin and go's are already having a noticeable effect on cash game liquidity-8% by some estimates in just a few weeks time. More new recs will opt for spin and lose than micro games and the quality of your games will go down inevitably.

If you care about the viability of online poker as a profitable endeavor for the vast majority of stakes, you should be concerned over not only the most recent actions and current status quo at Pstars, but where things are going in the coming months and years there.

 

[S3mper]

They are right that the sit outs just won't work, I am not really a fan of sit outs//protest, However I do believe players should voice their opinions on the or other subjects.

I think a petition would be more effective then a sit out especially a unorganized sit out of one day. If you were to petition the only way to get potential change out of it would be an extremely organized boycott and have everyone do as Ben said and play somewhere else.

Which is never going to happen... Online poker players wouldn't even stay away from The Venetian when the CEO tries to ge tonline poker players banned.. Were just to damn EV dependent... The EV of leaving Stars because of a increase in rake and decrease of rake is =EV when they are still the best deal.

Just like boycotting the Venetian was -EV to players because the Venetian has some good tournies...

I messed uo this bolded part I was going to say 2 different things that merged together as one but I'm way too tired to remember what it was... lol

 

[PokerFunKid]

I must really be missing something. Of course they are correct to ban/kick people just taking up space with no intention of playing.

Of course you have the right to protest if you want but as I keep repeating just don't play there that seems the most logical protest..If all these players wanting to sit out just actually withdrew their funds and didn't come back, played on other sites this is going to have more effect on them than the sit out. A sit out will have little impact and these players likely will just accept and continue playing on the site so effectively just an empty threat by players upset with a rake increase.

Yeah ofcourse that is the best way, to take your money and leave pokerstars. But that isn't that easy. Pokerstars is still the best server and taking the lowest rakes. And i think people are to upset against this. The real grinders who play for a living may talk but i think if you're playing for your hobby it isn't a big deal at all.

I just don't understand why Pokerstars did this. They may have a higher profit in the future, but it isn't nice for their name, have a big profit already and i'm afraid they will 'abuse' this power more in the future by doing more changes to disadvantage the players. And soon or late Pokerstars won't be the site with the lowest rakes.

About the sitting out... I think it is a nice symbol for if people will protest so it is actualy seen by pokerstars. I don't understand what the big deal is. Only way the will sit out is at cash games tables i asume or else they will lose money on tournament free sitting out lol. And cash games tables start a new one their self if one is full right? Anyways. The best way to boycot it is to not register in huge gtd tournaments. Lets say the sunday million with only 20 people in it. Hehe but that is impossible because everyone would grab some overlay then.

 

[S3mper]

Also if I were to organize a sit out it wouldn't be on a Wens. I would make it on a Sunday so people can go "I
ll just watch the Walking dead tonight instead then"

 

[S3mper]

Yeah ofcourse that is the best way, to take your money and leave pokerstars. But that isn't that easy. Pokerstars is still the best server and taking the lowest rakes. And i think people are to upset against this. The real grinders who play for a living may talk but i think if you're playing for your hobby it isn't a big deal at all.

I just don't understand why Pokerstars did this. They may have a higher profit in the future, but it isn't nice for their name, have a big profit already and i'm afraid they will 'abuse' this power more in the future by doing more changes to disadvantage the players. And soon or late Pokerstars won't be the site with the lowest rakes.

About the sitting out... I think it is a nice symbol for if people will protest so it is actualy seen by pokerstars. I don't understand what the big deal is. Only way the will sit out is at cash games tables i asume or else they will lose money on tournament free sitting out lol. And cash games tables start a new one their self if one is full right? Anyways. The best way to boycot it is to not register in huge gtd tournaments. Lets say the sunday million with only 20 people in it. Hehe but that is impossible because everyone would grab some overlay then.

Well the reason they did it is simple lol, I mean speaking from a business stand point it's genius and is text book economics. "Corner the market then raise the prices"

The reason it bothers me is they are a monopoly and they need competition to FORCE them to have the best deals, Even though they have the best deals it just seems worse because "Omg they are a monopoly and CAN make us pay whatever"

Also it seems worse because they are under new management, The owner is probably making the correct move for the business of his company but when some one new comes in and starts raising prices it seems very bad.
Maybe they should of at least waited till 2015 to announce it and had it done in Julyish

 

[Daniel72]

The changes don´t affect us normal people, and we are millions.
Who cares about a handful crazy hyper and HU regs.

 

[Debi]

I really don't need to go back and forth with you on this, but in the above it is clear-once you get through the bluster of someone who has realized they were logically owned- that in fact you had no basis for pretending to know the approximate number of people taking part in sanctions against Pokerstars globally.....

I'll leave it at that.

As for the thread not being popular, it is currently at the top tier of the first page, and has a total of ~40000 views in 3 days. That is super popular and I would bet puts it at the 95th percentile for all posts on NVG in popularity. (not just the ones you see on the first page which are obviously biased towards popularity...)

Anyway, so are you going to make a comment as to Pokerstars actions or going to snipe on the particulars of a single post? Why you guys are so preoccupied with poo pooing the process, but totally ignoring the problem confronting all of us is beyond me.

We'll be waiting....your thoughts on Amaya's latest money grab?

Ha - at last you notice! See how many views the thread has had (meant to point that out earlier) - and how few responses to it in the poll and comments - in comparison to the views? That was my point exactly - thanks for making it clearer.

Of course I think the move sucks for the players who will be impacted. But they have plenty of other choices for sites to play at.

Was Marie Antoinette the voice of reason when she exclaimed, "let them eat cake....?"


I mean obviously if Pokerstars continues on this path, I would wholeheartedly be in favor of people opting to use another site, but you guys act as if communications with a corporation or selective boycotts or the like have never produced positive results for consumers, and this is dead wrong.

No one is saying it is the only tool by which to change Amaya's approach, but it is certainly one which may work in getting their attention.

Once again making silly assumptions and deductions. We are simply saying this sitout will fail. Not that all communications with all corporations always fail. Not even saying don't do anything because it will all fail. Just the sitout - dumb idea and it will fail. #facepalm.

Players have already gotten PS attention - they are well aware of how upset a lot of players are. There are news stories, threads all over forums, social media posts - they are seeing it everywhere and time will tell if they react. (I personally don't think they will but who knows).

 

[S3mper]

I think the worst thing about the changes are the currency exchange fee's If they work like I think they work.

Which would be if a Canadian would want to play in a US $$ buy in tournament they would need to exchange their Canadian Hockey money for USD and get charged for it in order to play in the MTT?

 

[Debi]

The changes don´t affect us normal people, and we are millions.
Who cares about a handful crazy hyper and HU regs.

Appears there are some people who think a handful of regs at 2p2 make or break Pokerstars.

 

[S3mper]

Appears there are some people who think a handful of regs at 2p2 make or break Pokerstars.

Hmmm maybe getting rid of the regs is poker stars intent/ strategy lol

After all the regulars hurt poker sites more then increased rake

Edit: Winning regs anyways

 

[neil1603]

I think the worst thing about the changes are the currency exchange fee's If they work like I think they work.

Which would be if a Canadian would want to play in a US $$ buy in tournament they would need to exchange their Canadian Hockey money for USD and get charged for it in order to play in the MTT?

No the exchange rate charge only comes into play on withdrawals. If your cashier and withdrawal currency are the same there is no charge. I just changed my PS currency to GBP to match my bank and there is no problem.

 

[AlfieAA]

The changes don´t affect us normal people, and we are millions.
Who cares about a handful crazy hyper and HU regs.

wrong...it affects the micro ko sit n go's i play as the bountys are less, the overall prize monies are less and the rake is a tiny bit higher..

it affects everyone not just HU hyper regs lol..

but i dont think a sit out will work and i agree that 2+2 regs highly overestimate their importance to the site...in reality stars doesnt care one little bit.

 

[horizon12]

Obviously, users 2+2 forgotten what ended for participants of previous action mass sitout. Well, they are quickly reminded by letters of support PS....

I will write this warning for young players who want to fight against the billion company.. "Deliberate sitout violate the rules of poker room, which you agreed to when registering"

So do not worth it if you want to keep playing room.

 

[Debi]

I am done with you lol. Your reading comprehension skills are just too low to try to have a reasonable conversation with you.

Leave me out of the rest of your posts.

 

[fubarcdn]

We have all seen these types of protests against gas companies and they have been better organized and have never made an impact so the chances of this one working are next to nothing and may even confirm to Amaya that they are on the right track.
With rakeback and fpp's the higher stakes HU part of the market is unlikely to be producing a significant profit for them and they have the obligation to their shareholders to do what is necessary to maximize profit for each segment of the market.
As a recreational poker player, which is by far the largest market segment of their clients, I have no opinion one way or the other on their market strategy.
It has never been a casinos responsibility to help the sharks feed off of the recreational players who play poker for enjoyment.

 

[A2345Razz]

For those of you who have been saying the protests will "fail"....what are the goals of the protest?

If we don't have any beyond raising awareness, how can they demonstrably fail?

No one is trying to bring Amaya to their knees here, and this thread plus the 40000 views on 2p2 are part and parcel of a program of first bringing the issues to the poker playing public.

They've already succeeded largely in doing that.

 

[A2345Razz]

We have all seen these types of protests against gas companies and they have been better organized and have never made an impact so the chances of this one working are next to nothing and may even confirm to Amaya that they are on the right track.
With rakeback and fpp's the higher stakes HU part of the market is unlikely to be producing a significant profit for them and they have the obligation to their shareholders to do what is necessary to maximize profit for each segment of the market.
As a recreational poker player, which is by far the largest market segment of their clients, I have no opinion one way or the other on their market strategy.
It has never been a casinos responsibility to help the sharks feed off of the recreational players who play poker for enjoyment.

As a recreational player you will inevitably be affected negatively in SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM by these rake hikes/lottery game expansions.

It is simply delusional to think otherwise.

Also, it isn't simply about these particular changes, it is about many more changes coming in the pipeline at pokerstars.

Are you basically saying you just don't care about rake in general?

I mean would you keep playing if rake meant there was no way possible to beat poker in even the medium term?


I don't really understand posts like this because I am a recreational player who cares about these issues even if they don't personally affect me at this very moment being an American. If you love poker and want there to be an online game, you need to be at least concerned about the changes at Amayastars.

 

[RamdeeBen]

As a recreational player you will inevitably be affected negatively in SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM by these rake hikes/lottery game expansions.

Of course rake increase will effect us because we're obviously paying more but I think you're being short sighted in regards to SpinNGo's. You're looking short term and not long term, look at how many new players will be coming to the game solely to play these games, then look at when the novelty wears off their money goes back into the other games anyway so it's a win win. Or they bink a 3000x multiplier, I'm sure most of this money is likely going to be going on all the other games out there.

It's like the casino games that likely will be added to pokerstars next year, I'm all for it. More players, more fish, more money being put in other games.

 

[Poof]

I think this will be as effective as all of those gasoline boycotts we have had.

 

[fubarcdn]

I don't play poker to make money. If I want to make money I trade stocks. An increase in trading commission would certainly annoy me so the answer is no rake is of little or no importance to me and most players who play for fun and a large majority of the 132,000 players currently online and playing at Poker Stars likely fall into that category.
It is like if Ticketmaster raised the price of getting say Katy Perry tickets by $5 would the recreational concert goer really care that much?
You have to open your mind and see things from a different perspective.

 

[Chemist]

I predict a lot of UK players will refrain from playing on November 5th.
It's Fireworks night! The day we celebrate the guy who tried to blow up the government.

 

[fubarcdn]

What is the official name of Fireworks night Chemist?
It is strange how we are unaware of holidays in other countries.
In canada fireworks night is either on the May 24 weekend to celebrate the Queens birthday or on July 1 to celebrate the birth of Canada but both are just good excuses to party.