Annie Duke Taking Heat at the 2012 WSOP

[absoluthamm]

Okay so I went through Scotty Clarks stuff (for the second time) and I still do not see anything that would cause me to hate Annie Duke. In fact it was extremely biased and was really reaching to try to make her look bad.

How in the world can they can reach the conclusion that she was culpable in what happened at UB because she was 1.5% (ONE POINT FIVE PERCENT) owner shows someone who has no understanding of business.

I have been in those shoes - got investigated - called in and interrogated by the state department because I was a minority owner in a business that failed and ended up owing people money and I had no clue what was going on (and I had way more that 1.5%).

TBH, I remembered reading that a couple months ago, but forgot the whole thing until I reread it. It is biased because of the BDPS stuff with him personally, but there are a lot of the community reasons in there as well, as far as everything with UB and her connections, the fact that she is really just a b***h in person even though on camera she tried to come off as a sweetheart, and everything with the EPL. Actually, the last page was what I remembered:

The Epic Fail Poker League owes over 100 creditors over $5 million dollars, and had only $15,000 when it filed for bankruptcy protection. Jeffrey Pollack named Annie Duke the Commissioner despite many objections in the Poker World.

 

[Charade You Are]

One more thing for the person who blamed the US situation on poker for the failure of the Epic poker league. She lives here. She knew the risks. Pre Black Friday we al knew that the hammer could fall at any time. She doesn't get to play the "OMG, I had no idea such a thing could happen"

I didn't blame the whole Epic failure on the US situation, I said it was a contributing factor.

 

[ythelongface]

There needs to be a certain degree of civility in this game we call poker. Just because someone is not well liked, should not give anyone the right to talk this much s*** about them especially to their face much less at the poker table. Yes, she has made some mistakes, yes she deserves some criticism, but that can and should be done with some class. I am hardly her biggest fan, but some of the things that were said to her at that table(s) or by others such as Negreanu really serve no purpose that I can see other than a game of pile on.

 

[Debi]

There needs to be a certain degree of civility in this game we call poker. Just because someone is not well liked, should not give anyone the right to talk this much s*** about them especially to their face much less at the poker table. Yes, she has made some mistakes, yes she deserves some criticism, but that can and should be done with some class. I am hardly her biggest fan, but some of the things that were said to her at that table(s) or by others such as Negreanu really serve no purpose that I can see other than a game of pile on.

Do you feel the same way about Ferguson and Lederer?

 

[MediaBLITZ]

TBH, I remembered reading that a couple months ago, but forgot the whole thing until I reread it. It is biased because of the BDPS stuff with him personally, but there are a lot of the community reasons in there as well, as far as everything with UB and her connections, the fact that she is really just a b***h in person even though on camera she tried to come off as a sweetheart, and everything with the EPL. Actually, the last page was what I remembered:

Don't get me wrong - where there is smoke there is fire - but guy's like S. Clark need to be honest and quit trying to make it bigger than it is. If she's a bitch (I have little doubt) then great - call it out. Don't like her? Cool - just say it. But acting like she has done something worthy of being banned from poker - well prove it or shut the hell up. S. Clark had not a shred of proof - just allegations and innuendo because he doesn't like here (and it seems the feeling is mutual).
Hellmuth could a complete dick for all those years (big fan of Phil's) but that was just Phil being Phil. Maybe this is the old story - a guy can be a complete bastard but a woman is not allowed to be a raging bitch (well she's not allowed to around me anyway).

 

[okeedokalee]

Smells like a Lederer. Acts like a Lederer. Bolshevik like a Lederer...

Just stinks.

-

You got it dude.until they pay their debts to all the scammed amateurs who they stole from at various amounts all the scum should be prohibited from major tournaments

 

[absoluthamm]

Don't get me wrong - where there is smoke there is fire - but guy's like S. Clark need to be honest and quit trying to make it bigger than it is. If she's a bitch (I have little doubt) then great - call it out. Don't like her? Cool - just say it. But acting like she has done something worthy of being banned from poker - well prove it or shut the hell up. S. Clark had not a shred of proof - just allegations and innuendo because he doesn't like here (and it seems the feeling is mutual).
Hellmuth could a complete dick for all those years (big fan of Phil's) but that was just Phil being Phil. Maybe this is the old story - a guy can be a complete bastard but a woman is not allowed to be a raging bitch (well she's not allowed to around me anyway).

I agree with you mostly. The whole thing on that page was back in MArch, so that was way(well not WAY) before this whole wsop issue happened, and it was overhyped, but I agree with a lot of the non-petty stuff.

I used to hate Hellmuth as well because I did not like the way he used to make himself seem like his sh*t doesn't stink and that he was God's gift to poker. It really wasn't until last year that I started liking him again because he dropped a lot of that. /derail

 

[ythelongface]

There needs to be a certain degree of civility in this game we call poker. Just because someone is not well liked, should not give anyone the right to talk this much s*** about them especially to their face much less at the poker table. Yes, she has made some mistakes, yes she deserves some criticism, but that can and should be done with some class. I am hardly her biggest fan, but some of the things that were said to her at that table(s) or by others such as Negreanu really serve no purpose that I can see other than a game of pile on.

Do you feel the same way about Ferguson and Lederer?

Yes, because honestly it is not going to change anything. I dont like what any of them did, but degradating them in person is not going to do anything about what happened. I have no doubt I and many others would feel better if they could do this, but what would come of it? Truth is, no one is getting their money back and they are horrible people who deserve our scorn. The best punishment for all of them may be that they are hated by the people who used to idolize them....Not as good as them being in jail or paying back the money, but its all we have I'm afraid.

 

[Poker Orifice]

kind of shows a touch of arrogance and a bad choice to show up imo.

agreed ^

all the scum should be prohibited from major tournaments

yuuupp!

 

[alaskabill]

Yes, because honestly it is not going to change anything. I dont like what any of them did, but degradating them in person is not going to do anything about what happened. I have no doubt I and many others would feel better if they could do this, but what would come of it? Truth is, no one is getting their money back and they are horrible people who deserve our scorn. The best punishment for all of them may be that they are hated by the people who used to idolize them....Not as good as them being in jail or paying back the money, but its all we have I'm afraid.

What would come of it is that, yes, it would make people feel better. Since they are likely not getting paid they ought to get something. Its sort of like how victims get to address the criminal and let them know how they feel after a trial.

If everyone is super polite to them how exactly do we show them the scorn that you agree that they deserve?

No one would even question saying something to them if we hadn't built them into larger than life figures. Part of the reason that people can do outrageous things in our society is that most people simply won't call them out on their actions. We've all been brainwashed that we have to polite and turn the other cheek and don't say anything to cause a scene or embarrass anyone. This attitude empowers assholes who have no problem taking advantage of your civility.

 

[Demonomania]

I think it's more about it being the WSOP than whether or not Duke deserves to be respectfully treated.

It's the worlds most prestigious event of poker. I mean seriously, talking that level of shit is way too immature. And nothing good is going to come of it for the event. Honestly, it just makes poker look trashy from a media stand point. (not that Duke needed help making the game look trashy)

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Good point - why drag dirty laundry out on the biggest stage where everyone is watching. Oh - to make Annie look bad. You realize she's is about the only connection a lot of regular folks and politicians have to the game? Tearing her down tears down the game. I'm not saying keep her on a pedestal I'm saying STFU and if have something personal against here then keep it personal. Or if you have evidence call a press conference and put it out there.

 

[LeanAndMean]

Saying **** you at the poker table is just bad manners, no matter what the recipient did or what his/her sex. Are we respectable professionals or adolescents? He should have had a penalty.

 

[scottyclark]

Okay so I went through Scotty Clarks stuff (for the second time) and I still do not see anything that would cause me to hate Annie Duke. In fact it was extremely biased and was really reaching to try to make her look bad.

Agreed. It was biased, and I want to clarify a few things about that series....

A) Not all poker players are as savvy or informed about Annie and the poker world as this, or other forums. Pleae keep that in mind.

B) There is no doubt in my mind, Annie is a bad apple. None

C) It was my goal to gather up information and combine it in one place. It isn't hard to make her look bad!

D) Of course it was personal and biased, I have stated that many places and many times.

All that being said, what did I get wrong? I was wrong about Phil Hellmuth. Haley Hintze reports Phil was part of the original ownership all the way back to 1998. After I wrote the series, a trusted source told me Phil offered him a piece of ownership very early on, before Annie had signed with UB. My source is to be trusted is all I can reveal. And I will say, I left many things out about Annie, I feel are true...

A good player keeps a few Aces up his sleeve

Thanks for reading, thanks for hearing me out.

Cool forum bro,
Scott Clark

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Scotty,

I actually found this whole pile on Annie thing pretty entertaining at one time (I am not a fan) - but after a few years I have ended up losing respect for those doing the piling, Negreneau and others. I once was a huge fan of Daniels now I no longer care.

Everything you say can be 100% accurate and Annie could be the devil, but the way you presented it ends up making you look petty and small. You were really reaching to make innocuous stuff or piss poor business decisions seem evil.

Maybe consider getting Raymer or Selbst to present your case next time.

But we're still Facebook friends bro

 

[scottyclark]

Everything you say is 100% accurate. Annie is the devil, but the way you presented it ends up making you look pretty and small.

Fixed your post

 

[Debi]

lol scotty

 

[TEG2300]

Okay I am just a know nothing, freeroll playing, no patience having upstart when it comes to poker.....however this situation does seem to benefit from some plain logic.
Correct me if I am wrong but, all of the people in the world calling some one foul names doesn't actually accomplish anything right? What could affect some change would be taking a much classier version of the facts to some one who could do something about it. In this case I don't know who that would be but I think it lowers the bar when otherwise intelligent, respectful people resort to everyday name calling.
Lets not be impotent here lets actually get some momentum towards justice...what about getting a coalition of players who commit to not playing in any tournament where some one who has cheated others is accepted until the make full amends. Just an idea feel free to flame me and call me names now.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Fixed your post

See this is why we are Facebook friends - I do love your irreverence

 

[scottyclark]

See this is why we are Facebook friends - I do love your irreverence

I actually had to look up "irreverence"...

 

[TEG2300]

That's funny. I tried looking up some of the footage from BDPS but it was almost unwatchable. Seemed so contrived.
I didn't see you there though. I caught the episode with Annie's boyfriend.
Is the rest of the show worth watching? Maybe from the beginning would be better?

 

[onemorechance]

grunching

She deserves everything she gets.

 

[alaskabill]

grunching

She deserves everything she gets.

QFT!

 

[MediaBLITZ]

I actually had to look up "irreverence"...

Even when it's directed at me - arshole!!!! lol

 

[scottyclark]

That's funny. I tried looking up some of the footage from BDPS but it was almost unwatchable. Seemed so contrived.
I didn't see you there though. I caught the episode with Annie's boyfriend.
Is the rest of the show worth watching? Maybe from the beginning would be better?

Season One was bad. UB learned a lesson, Season Two was formatted a bit different, but the pool of 24 contestants was padded with shills (Shawn Rice's girlfriend, a college buddy of the one of AP owners, etc etc etc). I had to play real good to make the final table and overcome the shills. Here's a few clips...enjoy my "divorce mullet".

Even when it's directed at me - arshole!!!! lol

Being an arshole isn't easy, You have to work at it. :icon_joke

I will be co-hosting the Windy City Poker Championship (WCPC) in the coming weeks and this thing will air in July on Comcast Chicago plus other regional outlets. Here's a heads-up match at the WCPC between WPT Boot Camp's Nick "Nicky Numbers" Brancato and myself from 2011. http://scottyclark65.blogspot.com/2012/06/scotty-clark-poker-show-7.html