Hey online players... How often while playing, are you dealt a great hand like AA, AK, KK and the likes, get called on your preflop raise. Then on the flop you notice something like 679(or similar, creating a straight draw) or perhaps a certain suit which creates a flush draw. Go heads up, realize the opponent needs 1 card for that straight or flush, and tell yourself the card will come on the river. And on that damn river, of all possible cards you lose your excellent draw to the poor call. So yeah, how often.

For me personally, it seems like very often. I would say here comes that 9.... here comes that 3, here comes that heart... and then it comes! lol Who else? Or should I stop saying it? Is it law of attraction or are online systems indeed rigged in some way?

Haha you have literally just described my last tourney exit well almost i have AA , utg raises 5xbb it comes to me i make it 12xbb re-raise im in the cut off the sb who is a crazy agro player calls,initial raiser calls flop comes 689 all off suit utg player all-in i call with the aces ,sb idiot calls utg turns over JJ great i have him beat, sb donkey of course has 7 10 off and after turn im drawing dead, earlier in the tourney i also lost with KK to 64 off all-in pre flop but luckily i had him covered, sorry for all the details but to answer your question i know exactly how you feel 🤮😁

Absolutely, they're rigged! They've traced it back (don't ask who "they" are) to DJT Enterprises, or something like that (previously in NYC) now in Florida. Word is "they" bought up the rights to all of the RNGs a little over 4 years ago. "They" bet (a million-to-one long shot at the time) on the US government turning a blind eye - it worked & "they" made a killing!

I don't think anything fishy is going on or that it is rigged. The flop is not always going to have face cards in it. AK doesn't always bring out a Q T J flop. AA doesn't always give you a third A on flop. People will often called with suited connectors so when a 3 to a straight is flopped this sometimes smashes their range. This is poker.

Permanent losses are possible only in the absence of analysis over the game. If there is no bankroll management. If there is no game plan.

Maybe you just pay more attention to such moments. Unlikely a such "gravitation" is possible on proven online poker sites and certainly not in a live games.


"Every time you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see all your opponents' cards, they gain" (Sklansky).

Originally Posted by mortimccarthy

Haha you have literally just described my last tourney exit

Lol man, I just laughed reading this. Well, I understand variance... I play live games for fun and very small buy ins. sometimes. It hardly happens as often as in online... but I guess one could argue I play more online games and would thus see it more too. Last night I had 2 exact situations like these.... Perhaps I shoulda screenshot them.

I guess the only thing that is absolutely true is that this question will linger for long after all of us have already left this earth!

i have this so often when i'm in the coinflip and i'm ahead and at the river i think ok now i'm going to lose and then it happens

You know what i love most about cardschat is the poker preachers when someone has a bad beat story out they come talking about equity and variance i wonder are these the same people when it happens to them they are smashing laptops/phones kicking their cat around the room 😂 i understand variance equity when i share a bad beat story im not angry or bitter i have moved past that it's just nice to have a thread to blow off a little steam, i am not playing poker to earn a living would i like to win when i am way ahead yeah sure but i know these things happen, rant over best of luck on the tables today poker people 🤞👍

Yeah, getting AA or KK or any nice starting hand cracked by a loose player is not a happy moment while playing poker. Although, cracking those hands are. How many players reading this have taken down pocket aces w/a smaller pkt-pr or suited connectors? Flopping a set or an awesome draw is what drives players to play and/or call w/certain hands, imo. The bigger the risk the bigger the reward, usually.
I've been playing online for over 10 yrs and have been on both sides of this situation, the tough beats and the issue of online poker being rigged. I suppose one could argue that the micro to low stakes are full of donks and all-inners so players will buy in for more in hopes of a "better game". My argument to that is Phil Ivey, Tom Dwan, Gus Hansen, Pat Antonius, etc. If anybody remembers playing at Full Tilt then you remember watching them go at it for hours on end. I saw some of the sickest beats, bluffs, and hero-calls ever played online. I watched them play the same way live, too; and they're betting w/new houses and Lambos. My point is is that AA, KK, AK are not bullet proof. There's no one hand that is supposed to win. I'm disappointed when I play 98std and it loses, silly me.
As far as the RNG is concerned I've been dealt AA 3 times in a row at a live table. Called a smaller stack's all-in w/83std and flopped a boat. The pokergodz giveth and the pokergodz taketh away.

Originally Posted by Rowdy Greg

Absolutely, they're rigged! They've traced it back (don't ask who "they" are) to DJT Enterprises, or something like that (previously in NYC) now in Florida. Word is "they" bought up the rights to all of the RNGs a little over 4 years ago. "They" bet (a million-to-one long shot at the time) on the US government turning a blind eye - it worked & "they" made a killing!

"they" scary,,,,

It happens to me all the time. I just laugh and know the odds are fixed.

Then again all in with J 8 , wins a lot.. Manage you bankroll

Absolutely, they're rigged!

Oh my God!!!
I will never sit down to play online again.
now only live tournaments.
holy shit, in this country, it's not available to mere mortals.

Honestly, I'm not bitter about it. It's just become part of online poker for me.... I'm now always mindful. What I wasn't sure of was if I'm just unlucky like that or is there a statistic that could paint a better picture? Seems like there are many statistics lol

It seems that such situations often occur. And you start to think that aces are the smallest pair of ones. And these thoughts, when others collect the most mythical combinations. Therefore, I try to say during the distribution: "Ace, ace, ace, ace, ace, ace, ace". Without stopping, so other thoughts don't come.

Get some statistical data on your own game and you will see for yourself that the cards runs just about they should.

It is all in the mind. We see what we want to see and remember what we want to. If you have a small feeling that online poker is rigged you will start to see the patterns that back up your theory while conveniently forgetting all the other times.

Something fishy or all in a fish's mind?

Originally Posted by Vivaly

It seems that such situations often occur. And you start to think that aces are the smallest pair of ones. And these thoughts, when others collect the most mythical combinations. Therefore, I try to say during the distribution: "Ace, ace, ace, ace, ace, ace, ace". Without stopping, so other thoughts don't come.

LMFAOOOOOOOO! ... You know I've recently caught myself doing the same thing! To a surprising amount of success if I think about it...

Originally Posted by eRaS55

LMFAOOOOOOOO! ... You know I've recently caught myself doing the same thing! To a surprising amount of success if I think about it...

Clearly this thread is more about your mystical powers, than of poker variance or rigged cards.

it's all in your mind, that doesn't really exist, projects have their percentage of completion and it can be for or against, you should count the times that this happens and write down all the times that these projects are not completed and how many if, when If you have a significant sample such as at least 5000 hands, you will see that the percentage of times the project is completed is similar to the percentage that the hand has to win.

I find myself resorting to that stupid play. I get so mad when I go all in with AA and a 23 off suit calls and wins. lately when 4 or 5 people are all in I call with 56 ,67,78 , 910 ,10 j suited and I win a lot of times. Stupid call but if you cant beat em join em.

Just happened tonight, I am BB with AA and UTG bets 2.5 LJ 4 bets 9.5 so I push all in. UTG calls with AK and LJ call with 37os, The flop comes, boom, a 3 and a 7 LJ takes the pot and cripples other chip stacks. Just unreal.

Originally Posted by digdug0037

Just happened tonight, I am BB with AA and UTG bets 2.5 LJ 4 bets 9.5 so I push all in. UTG calls with AK and LJ call with 37os, The flop comes, boom, a 3 and a 7 LJ takes the pot and cripples other chip stacks. Just unreal.

Originally Posted by samuri

I find myself resorting to that stupid play. I get so mad when I go all in with AA and a 23 off suit calls and wins. lately when 4 or 5 people are all in I call with 56 ,67,78 , 910 ,10 j suited and I win a lot of times. Stupid call but if you cant beat em join em.

Yeah, they happen and we are gutted for sure.... but did you call it? Did u say in your head (or out loud), "Here comes that suck out!" as it happened is the question?

Constant losses is the lack of studying and analysis of the game. Unless the site is rigged.

I don’t think these sites are rigged but i do believe in ‘action’ hands. I’ve noticed a lot of times AA go all I’m to be called by AK or KK. Whether it’s to increase rake or to encourage players to play loose in tournaments and speed up the elimination. I recently got eliminated in a a bounty tournament after having pocket 3s, I raised to 2BB with 4 or 5 callling me. The flop came with nothing of interest to me where luckily everyone checked, on the turn the 3 turned up so I bet with 5 BB with everyone folding apart from one who called, the ace turned up on the river and I was rubbing my hands hoping the villain had been waiting for this ace, I moved in with roughly 10bb and sure enough he called with pocket aces unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Awaterfall13

I don’t think these sites are rigged but i do believe in ‘action’ hands. I’ve noticed a lot of times AA go all I’m to be called by AK or KK. Whether it’s to increase rake or to encourage players to play loose in tournaments and speed up the elimination. I recently got eliminated in a a bounty tournament after having pocket 3s, I raised to 2BB with 4 or 5 callling me. The flop came with nothing of interest to me where luckily everyone checked, on the turn the 3 turned up so I bet with 5 BB with everyone folding apart from one who called, the ace turned up on the river and I was rubbing my hands hoping the villain had been waiting for this ace, I moved in with roughly 10bb and sure enough he called with pocket aces unbelievable.

How is 'action hands' not that same thing as rigged?

Originally Posted by Awaterfall13

I don’t think these sites are rigged but i do believe in ‘action’ hands. I’ve noticed a lot of times AA go all I’m to be called by AK or KK.

Its all in the mind. If AA goes all in, and nobody else have anything, then the hand dont go to showdown, and you dont even know, someone had AA. But when some kind of cooler situation happen, it does go to showdown, so you see the cards. Just for fun I actually checked my PokerStars cash game database to see, how often I lost with KK to AA. It was within 10% of the expected frequenzy over 340k hands.

Originally Posted by Awaterfall13

I recently got eliminated in a a bounty tournament after having pocket 3s, I raised to 2BB with 4 or 5 callling me. The flop came with nothing of interest to me where luckily everyone checked, on the turn the 3 turned up so I bet with 5 BB with everyone folding apart from one who called, the ace turned up on the river and I was rubbing my hands hoping the villain had been waiting for this ace, I moved in with roughly 10bb and sure enough he called with pocket aces unbelievable.

Set over set is just a cooler situation, and this will happen on all poker sites and in live games as well. What you need to focus on is your own decisions, and in this hand I think, you might a small mistake preflop. Apparently you were in early or mid position with a 17BB stacks, and then the small pairs like 33 should just be folded. You dont really have enough implied odds to setmine, and if someone 3-bet, you have to fold. On the other hand 17BB is generally to much to risk on an open jam with 33, if you have several players left to act.

its rigged.... bigger hands, coolers.. more rake..

callers go to the river because they will hit the mircle card.

Regulars get the keep them going hands.. low stack all in... mircle quad 3's on the flop to beat AA or KK or AK beaten by A x..

yea i play.. but with free money from freerolls.

Why does party poker stop you from hand history or Huds.... prevents evidence?

same as all the other on line no Hud or hand history sites..

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Just for fun I actually checked my PokerStars cash game database to see, how often I lost with KK to AA. It was within 10% of the expected frequenzy over 340k hands.

This is really cool! Do you know how to check this on ACR as I don't really play elsewhere. And then where do I go to check those frequencys over various hand sizes? Will be cool if I can see what mine says.

Its not rigged. Its going to happen and when we play so many more hand online it may seam to happen more but it is not rigged.

Lol.... Somethimes it happens, but I'm sure it's the same for the other players. That's poker!

Deal with it! Keep going.

meagain00

Originally Posted by eRaS55

Hey online players... How often while playing, are you dealt a great hand like AA, AK, KK and the likes, get called on your preflop raise. Then on the flop you notice something like 679(or similar, creating a straight draw) or perhaps a certain suit which creates a flush draw. Go heads up, realize the opponent needs 1 card for that straight or flush, and tell yourself the card will come on the river. And on that damn river, of all possible cards you lose your excellent draw to the poor call. So yeah, how often.

For me personally, it seems like very often. I would say here comes that 9.... here comes that 3, here comes that heart... and then it comes! lol Who else? Or should I stop saying it? Is it law of attraction or are online systems indeed rigged in some way?

Cannot wait until all sites are regulated in the US. This will give a little more piece of mind on such situations.

Originally Posted by Backlash

Cannot wait until all sites are regulated in the US. This will give a little more piece of mind on such situations.

Are you implying that this is in process? Or is it more that you hope some day all sites are regulated? ... Also I would add the hope that whoever audits sites is not crooked and corrupt. It's the gambling world after all, and what happens in Vegas.... U know the rest

Originally Posted by Luvepoker

Its not rigged. Its going to happen and when we play so many more hand online it may seam to happen more but it is not rigged.

I agree!

Originally Posted by Backlash

Cannot wait until all sites are regulated in the US. This will give a little more piece of mind on such situations.

We can only hope. I wont hold my breath though. If lucky it will happen before my funeral.

Ok so true story.... In tonights freebuys. In the $100, Guy goes all in PF and I call with AJ, he has Q8 hearts... we blank all the way to the Q on river.

But this one.... the $250, I'm dealt QQ and shove. Guy calls with 66.... Flop happens, 2-3-4... I'm like Oh boy, here it comes. And the 5 actually hits on the turn, with ACR rubbing salt in the wound with a 7 on the river.

I rest my case!

Hello. Algorythms, I feel is partially to blame. Poker algorhythms in software can eliminate a person very quickly. Whether intetional or not, it's a fact. In essence, do not play against a big handed villain at the start of a tourney, just before breaks, prior to the bubble and on the final table. I can say and have experienced the same as others and went as far as noticing there seems to be certain times during play that this happens. By the way, I do not know what I am talking about or maybe others have seen the same. One thing definitely can and must be understood, in online poker, you are playing against others and the software.

I definitely think something fishy is going on. For instance, everybody agrees in the instance where the hacker/insider could see all the other players cards. If this happened before, it is likely to happen again. Now, an even *more* serious exploit (that would be nearly as easy to do) would be for some hacker or company insider to obtain the seed for the RNG (they would have to know how the shuffling algorithm works, but this would be fairly easy for a company insider or an intelligent hacker to deduce). Once you have the seed for the RNG, assuming it is a PRNG which 99.99% of all RNGs are, you will be able to know with certainty what all the cards will be (without even seeing all the cards dealt) based on what cards you are dealt. This includes all the cards the other players have, what cards will come on the flop, turn, *and* river just by knowing this one number.

It is called a *pseudo* random number generator for a reason, after all. I have never seen any evidence produced that these RNGs are truly random (if you have evidence, feel free to post it - the only sites I've read produced zero sources).

My solution is to simply try not to overthink it, and treat any money on these poker sites as play money (I won't put in more than I would be upset to lose). As long as it is cheaper than a movie and helps me play better live poker, I think it is worth it to me. Any profits are just a cherry on top and would just be used to play with a bigger bankroll or cashed out immediately.

Oh no I feel like it happens to much and I'm talking if you got Kk they got AA if you had Aa ( had this happen few nights ago ) preflop there was raises were we all went all in I have AA 2 others got qq and 1010 well flop beautiful nothing higher than 8 then turn 10 river a queen like I had to get off I was on tilt lol...

Originally Posted by eRaS55

Hey online players... How often while playing, are you dealt a great hand like AA, AK, KK and the likes, get called on your preflop raise. Then on the flop you notice something like 679(or similar, creating a straight draw) or perhaps a certain suit which creates a flush draw. Go heads up, realize the opponent needs 1 card for that straight or flush, and tell yourself the card will come on the river. And on that damn river, of all possible cards you lose your excellent draw to the poor call. So yeah, how often.

For me personally, it seems like very often. I would say here comes that 9.... here comes that 3, here comes that heart... and then it comes! lol Who else? Or should I stop saying it? Is it law of attraction or are online systems indeed rigged in some way?

I can only surmise that no one knows for sure exactly what PokerStars and other sites are doing..EXCEPT...they of course are a large corporate entity and PROFIT is their only motivator and to any that say it would be silly for PS to manipulate the cards in MICRO MTTs I suggest you consider the cases of large tobacco, large Pharmaceuticals and Auto makers and how they have been driven by profit needs to hide defects of their products without any apparent concern of the consequences to their customers or themselves. I believe it is very naive to think nothing is fishy.

When you start chasing the flush draw or straight draw yourself, you will lose even more often. We often want our high pocket pairs to win the showdown. But the chances of pocket pairs gaining power are very small. You should be able to fold with KK, AA when the board becomes too dangerous. If your statistics show losses of large pots with pocket pairs, then do not make big bets.

Sorry for the late reply guys.... but I really appreciate your responses. great comments with lots to think about. I guess it's fair always just keep in mind that this is a factor of online poker and adjust playing accordingly... That said, this seems like it could be a hard one to try and avoid, 'cause to be fair, losing like this is often not because you made a bad play per se...

aaargh another one of those sucky just part of life things I guess.

Originally Posted by bigmack

It is called a *pseudo* random number generator for a reason, after all. I have never seen any evidence produced that these RNGs are truly random (if you have evidence, feel free to post it - the only sites I've read produced zero sources).

@bigmack thanks for that informative reply. I can't say I know anything about how any of that works, but I do understand the concept that something that exists and works only because it is following sets of pre-programmed instructions cannot give a random result, as it gets it's idea of what random is based on the instruction it was given.
So, I totally stand with you on that and it would be cool if someone could pop up and show evidence to the contrary?

Originally Posted by CDNMAN 42

I can only surmise that no one knows for sure exactly what PokerStars and other sites are doing..EXCEPT...they of course are a large corporate entity and PROFIT is their only motivator and to any that say it would be silly for PS to manipulate the cards in MICRO MTTs I suggest you consider the cases of large tobacco, large Pharmaceuticals and Auto makers and how they have been driven by profit needs to hide defects of their products without any apparent concern of the consequences to their customers or themselves. I believe it is very naive to think nothing is fishy.

100% ... whenever someone says that sites have nothing to gain by knocking players unfairly, I always say consider that majority of the time it's the small stack on the losing end. And when there is a 2 - 8 hour rebuy period on these tourneys, it's pretty clear what benefit exists.

I don't think online poker is rigged.
Even when my aces are cracked by 68s like today.
I just think I should fold this hand because my winning percentage with AA is about 30%.
That's poker and it's useless to complain, moreover because we easily forget the bad beats we sometimes inflict to other players.

Confirmation bias, when I'm looking for a flush draw it doesn't come, then another time when I fold it appears. I overlook the times when I get a flush or the times I fold and the flush doesn't materalise

I do not use a HUD, but I strongly expect that those who do would see that the expected odds match their results quite closely, especially over the long term.
Blaming the RNG is just another player losing it over a bad beat.

so you go into everything or nothing because of those players who like to take risks or are there to play,

Originally Posted by 1988810

Confirmation bias, when I'm looking for a flush draw it doesn't come, then another time when I fold it appears. I overlook the times when I get a flush or the times I fold and the flush doesn't materalise

Flushes are weird things. The odds of making one (if you're starting with 2 suited cards) are not all that good. YET, they're the most chased after hand in amateur poker. I usually wait for a combo flush draw/OESD and still lose despite the much, much better odds.

My advice - don't chase it unless you've already got a strong made hand.