Softplay

G

gwj63

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Total posts
455
Cant say I've ever been at a table that players softplay each other until tonight.
Two players from same country, we get down to three and I get bet to and raised
but they check all streets to each other if I'm not in the hand.
Obvious softplay to their homeland (Bulgaria) but not to me (USA).

Some people are to stupid to even make it look good with a bet here and there.
They never bet to each other, only me. And it worked, I was third.
 
10058765

10058765

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Total posts
8,213
Awards
8
Had it several times and one occasion comes to my mind.
While playing 90 man SnG's at a time of the day the pool was full of players from brazil.
Reached a final table with 8 Brazilian.
3 Of them were softplaying eachother and , believe it or not, were chatting to eachother how to get this Dutch player (me) out.
Sometimes it's useful understanding some foreign languages :)

Nevertheless, ok it was a bit unfair but being it a $1 game it didn't bother me to much and I actually already expected a bit of this behaviour.
I finished 2nd anyways.

Another time however I was berated by another Dutch player calling me names not softplaying him.
He couldn't understand I agressively played against him, while there still were players from Russia and Ukraine in the game.
I will not say what harsh names he gave to these players, but he said some ugly things about my mother and child also.
One of the rare occasions I reported someone to pokerstars staff.
 
greatgame230

greatgame230

Visionary
Joined
May 29, 2011
Total posts
916
Both cases must be reported to the support of the room in which they played regardless of the buy-in or if it was not real money that does not matter.
This is collusion and must be reported to the corresponding authorities of the poker room to take action against these types of players since collusion is cheating and the most common of all in online poker and is our obligation from my point of view, to prevent these types of players, can continue to cheat other players
 
B

burkhsb

Rising Star
Joined
Aug 31, 2019
Total posts
8
what did PS do? did room punish players?
 
D

dorynel7

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Total posts
433
This is collusion and must be reported to the corresponding authorities of the poker room
 
F

freestocks

Legend
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Total posts
2,351
That could be collusion, but it's hard to prove.
 
G

gwj63

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Total posts
455
Both cases must be reported to the support of the room in which they played regardless of the buy-in or if it was not real money that does not matter.
This is collusion and must be reported to the corresponding authorities of the poker room to take action against these types of players since collusion is cheating and the most common of all in online poker and is our obligation from my point of view, to prevent these types of players, can continue to cheat other players

what did PS do? did room punish players?


This is collusion and must be reported to the corresponding authorities of the poker room

I didn't report it,
honestly, I don't care enough
if it were to happen again, I would
 
E

ekgbeat

Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Total posts
1,359
Awards
2
Cant say I've ever been at a table that players softplay each other until tonight.
Two players from same country, we get down to three and I get bet to and raised
but they check all streets to each other if I'm not in the hand.
Obvious softplay to their homeland (Bulgaria) but not to me (USA).

Some people are to stupid to even make it look good with a bet here and there.
They never bet to each other, only me. And it worked, I was third.


Was this live or online? I'm sure it's easy for an online operator to review all of the hands to see if there was wrong doing. Not sure the stakes this happened at, but a 5min email could yield results.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,276
Awards
1
Cant say I've ever been at a table that players softplay each other until tonight.
Two players from same country, we get down to three and I get bet to and raised
but they check all streets to each other if I'm not in the hand.
Obvious softplay to their homeland (Bulgaria) but not to me (USA).

Some people are to stupid to even make it look good with a bet here and there.

They never bet to each other, only me. And it worked, I was third.

Could have been collusion for sure, but that being said, if you were the short stack, it does make a lot of sense for them to not go aggressively after each other. There is a pretty big ICM tax to pay for them, if they bust against each other and let the short stack fold his way to second place.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,276
Awards
1
Had it several times and one occasion comes to my mind.
While playing 90 man SnG's at a time of the day the pool was full of players from Brazil.
Reached a final table with 8 Brazilian.
3 Of them were softplaying eachother and , believe it or not, were chatting to eachother how to get this Dutch player (me) out.
Sometimes it's useful understanding some foreign languages :)

Nevertheless, ok it was a bit unfair but being it a $1 game it didn't bother me to much and I actually already expected a bit of this behaviour.
I finished 2nd anyways.

Another time however I was berated by another Dutch player calling me names not softplaying him.
He couldn't understand I agressively played against him, while there still were players from Russia and Ukraine in the game.
I will not say what harsh names he gave to these players, but he said some ugly things about my mother and child also.

One of the rare occasions I reported someone to Pokerstars staff.

I am kind of on the fence about, how I would have handled this. On one side I get your point, that the first incidence was a 1$ tournament, so whatever. Also if someone is dumb enough to discuss their collusion in the actual chat box, again whatever. I am more concerned about people, who are communicating on Skype or Messenger etc.

On the other site they were probably some kind of regulars trying to work their way up through the stakes. And then this kind of behaviour has to be stopped, before they reach stakes, where the money matter a bit more. So on balance I would probably have reported this, so they could at least get a warning.

Personally I have seen one incidence, that looked like chip dumping on a final table. A very short stacked player opened for 80% of his stack on BTN, and BB just called. Which already seemed weird to be, since it would be an obvious spot to just get it in and play for his entire stack.

Then on the flop it got even more weird, because now the short stacker went all in, and the other guy simply folded for whatever tiny amount of chips, the shorty had left. This of course makes no sense mathematically, so I got suspicious, they were colluding, and sure enough they had the same nationality.

However it was a first depositors freeroll on 888 poker, and they were clearly recreational players. So I decided, that overall it was better for me, if these guys kept on playing, rather than getting problems with site security and perhaps be turned off. I also could not rule out completely, that the big stack was just bad enough to not understand pot odds or tournament strategy.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
Could have been collusion for sure, but that being said, if you were the short stack, it does make a lot of sense for them to not go aggressively after each other. There is a pretty big ICM tax to pay for them, if they bust against each other and let the short stack fold his way to second place.

This was going to be my point exactly. ICM plays a big factor in the top 3 payout ladders. If each jump is a significant amount of $$ then obviously the two larger stacks want to avoid getting into a huge pot and risk busting when they both practically have a 2nd place finish locked up. I actually enjoy these spots - I get super aggressive and try to gain a little ground when I can - if I end up rivaling a second place stack - then the game changes and we can get down to some poker.

So maybe not all of it is collusion - tho it certainly could be - as with the instance of them discussing such a thing in the chat box - that's blatant and wrong, I hope they were reprimanded for it. However playing the bigger stacks at the table with more caution is pretty standard when payout jumps are significantly larger. In a game where 3rd gets $5, 2nd gets $7.5 and first gets $12 ‐ then the jump between 3rd and 2nd isn't so bad.

So if you are short stacked, I dont think busting in 3rd would be too terrible. However the difference between 3rd and 1st is quite a bit - so if all 3 stacks remaining were even - you would probably approach pots with more caution because you definitely want to set yourself up for a shot at that 1st place finish.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,276
Awards
1
If I had an experience like OP, I would review all the hands in PT4 afterwards to see, if it really was as suspicious, as I first felt. Often 3-handed play does not last all that long, so how many hands did they actually play against each other, that went postflop, and what did they show down in those hands? Was it something, they should clearly have bet for value at least 1-2 streets, or did they perhaps just happen to not really have anything in those hands?

And then I would probably just let it go. If it was a case of feeling solidarity to someone from the same country, then chances are, they did not actively agree about the collusion, and then its not even against the TOS of most poker sites. Chances of us ending up as the final 3 in another MTT is also very slim, so its not like, this is something, I have to contend with in future sessions as well.

Software is a little bit of a grey zone area, when it comes to collusion, because its difficult to make fast and steady rules about, when you "should" bet. Maybe the OOP player checked, because he was trapping and planning to go for a check-raise etc.

Its only really, when you have the nuts, and you are closing action on the river, that anything other than betting or raising become 100% suspicious, and in fact most live tournaments have rules about this situation.
 
tame4g

tame4g

Rock Star
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Total posts
177
I noticed soft play like this on ACR last night, top 3 of a micro SNG. At the time, I wasn't a short stacked - I was competing for chip lead with 2nd place, back and forth. Anyways, they got into a hand situation in which the shorter stack (300k chips) had a straight and the big stack (1.2m) has a flush. They just min-bet each other the entire time on every street...
 
B

bigpappa325

Visionary
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Total posts
995
You guys make me feel like i'm a terrible person. I have donated to a few of you just because i recognized you from CC forum and chat often at the tables with some of you. Never has anybody asked or verbally offered chips but it has happen. Granted these were low stakes but if there was table talking on a final table this might be an issue. Report and let them figure it out. I will go sit in shame. See ya at the tables.
 
Top