Rake in online poker

[FreshmanJoe]

I think it's greed. As long as people are willing to pay unreasonable prices, there's no reason why these companies would wanna let you go home with some money for yourself. Like this bright guy above that paid $3000 out of $11,000 win. That's a sure way to go broke. I'd be surprised if he's around in a couple years. But that's probably the kind of people these casinos want.

 

[antonis32123]

Like any business , they have tyo make profit so as to provide their service , offer the high guarantees in tournaments , pay their employees , or else what's the point of offering a service .If the questionis whether the rake should be lower , well maybe yes , 5-8% would be better imo , but I do not know the effect of such a change on the guarantees prizepools , so yes , generally I do not know ...
Businesses that offer their services/product cheap/very cheap or even free , simply they SUCK !!!!!

 

[fundiver199]

Like this bright guy above that paid $3000 out of $11,000 win. That's a sure way to go broke. I'd be surprised if he's around in a couple years. But that's probably the kind of people these casinos want.

Paying only 3.000$ to the poker site for being able to take out 8.000$ in net profit is an excellent result, since it mean, he got to keep 73% of his net winnings. Very few cash game players get to keep more than 30-50% of their net winnings. This is actually one of the main reasons, why I have moved from cash games to MTTs.

 

[FreshmanJoe]

Very few cash game players get to keep more than 30-50% of their net winnings.

I'm not sure what sites you're playing at sir but if I was a bankruptcy lawyer I would want my advertisement there.

 

[fundiver199]

I'm not sure what sites you're playing at sir but if I was a bankruptcy lawyer I would want my advertisement there.

For stakes up to 100NL it is typical to pay something like 8-10BB / 100 in rake, and winning players can typically have a winrate of 3-10BB / 100. These are numbers, you can see in your database like HM2 or PT4. This mean, that at least half the net winnings of a very good cash game player is kept by the poker site as rake.

There is nothing new about this. Its been like this since the beginning of poker, and live casinos charge even more rake than online casinos. The only thing changing is, that games have gotten tougher, so that these days few people will be able to get much more than 3-5BB / 100 even at stakes as low as 10NL, except over a short sunshine run.

 

[PPT]

The issue is scale.

If you were to do a fixed fee instead of a rake that'd be a lot higher than a lot of players are currently paying. If people are only playing $20 then their rake would be small.


If a site opened up with a fixed charge instead of a rake then it'd be too high for most players so they wouldn't play there. The only players who'd switch are the professionals who gamble lots of money each month as they're the ones who'd benefit.

Except would you want to be playing on a site where you're only matched against professionals and never amateurs playing and willing to lose money for fun?

 

[FreshmanJoe]

The issue is scale.

If you were to do a fixed fee instead of a rake that'd be a lot higher than a lot of players are currently paying. If people are only playing $20 then their rake would be small.


If a site opened up with a fixed charge instead of a rake then it'd be too high for most players so they wouldn't play there. The only players who'd switch are the professionals who gamble lots of money each month as they're the ones who'd benefit.

Except would you want to be playing on a site where you're only matched against professionals and never amateurs playing and willing to lose money for fun?

Ok. So how about just charging a certain percentage during withdrawal, so the money isn't coming off the table? And why does the rake have to be that high?

 

[Swat1197]

It's normal, monthy fee for all is not fair

 

[fundiver199]

And why does the rake have to be that high?

Why does gasoline or a pair of jeans need to be that expensive? Its a free market, and complaining in forums about overpriced products bring us nowhere. Instead we need to look at the options available and then simply pick the one, which is best for us. And there are also some good news out there. pokerstars received a lot of criticism, when they replaced their old reward system with the "chest" years ago. Now however they have gone back to a more traditional rakeback system, where as I understand it, the "core" rakeback is 20%. In top of that people can then also earn either 10% or 40% by completing a monthly challenge.

Maybe the bar for the "challange" is set a bit high, but even just the core 20% is a huge improvement over the 2-5%, most people got from the "chests", so PokerStars is taking a big paycut with their new system. Presumably because they are tired of losing market share to GG Poker, which they have for a number of years. Yet where are all the forum posts telling us about, how fantastic this new rakeback system on PokerStars is? There are none. So people are very good at complaining, but they are not very good at appreciating, when things actually got better for them.

Also when Run In Once poker was opened a few years ago, I watched multible Youtube videos about how much better the rakeback system was there compared to say PokerStars. But the fact of the matter is, the site is now a ghosttown. There is literally zero action there. So clearly there is more to running a good poker site than just offering low rake or high rakeback. The site need to be appealing for recreational players, and there need to be advertisement to make them know, it even excist. Otherwise the pros can sit there all day long and grind each other down, until nobody are left.

 

[Alex70793]

I think that still rake during the game is better than a fixed monthly fee, and if you paid for a month and don't play, the computer broke down, the Internet disappeared, well, in general, you can't play.
When the rake is removed right during the game, at least it's clear for what.

 

[WJMKAM]

There are play money poker sites that get no money from rake. If they can do it other sites can do it with real money. At the very least, they can do it with much smaller rake. Just watch a couple ads.

However, part of the problem is that there are not enough people making deposits at these sites. A lot of players are there only for the freerolls. What these sites need to do is have more advertising. Before you can be seated, you need to watch an ad. It could play ads during the break. Or play a ad every 30 minutes or so.

There are some additional costs to the money handling. So it is a little more expensive for real money sites.

If players would be willing to watch adds, the cost of the rake could be reduced. Companies get paid by click throughs and purchases. There may need to be a delay before you can start playing so that there is time to shop. Players would need to be willing to watch ads, wait and shop to save the rake.

It could be done,

 

[fundiver199]

There are play money poker sites that get no money from rake.

Zynga Poker actually charge 3% rake, and they make money from selling fake money play chips. Plus what does the software and security of those sites look like? Probably not something you would want to invest real money in.

If players would be willing to watch adds, the cost of the rake could be reduced. Companies get paid by click throughs and purchases. There may need to be a delay before you can start playing so that there is time to shop. Players would need to be willing to watch ads, wait and shop to save the rake.

That might be an option, but I would find it insanely annoying. Do we really need more add-financed services? Its not enough with those we have already, like Youtube?

 

[PPT]

There are surely more insurance etc costs related to real money play than play money play.

 

[The Long Shot]

just look around you - literally every poker player is playing poker for one reason... because they think it will make them money

Me? I play poker because I love to play poker.

I may have misunderstood, but are you saying that literally all poker players have the same unseemly financial motivation, except you who are driven by a pure love of the game?