I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

Originally Posted by nikospov1

I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

Is very hard to detect such a standard since there are so many bluffers at the online games mainly on the lower stakes.

Originally Posted by Rob Hobson

Is very hard to detect such a standard since there are so many bluffers at the online games mainly on the lower stakes.

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

Originally Posted by RimworldDoctor

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

Seems early on in a tournament you have a fair amount of these. Gotta love those who play out of position with the largish Cbet, smallish turn, followed by a river bomb.

Of course you gotta have something to call that river bomb.

Watch for the quick jam on a runout that they should have had to think about. This is often a bluff.

When you catch a bluff take notes on how the hand went down and where he bluffed and if he barreled through or gave up. You would be surprised how often these notes have come in handy.

Hi!

I may be doing it wrong because I only play my cards. You might need to change this strategy and not just play from the cards because then you could win more. By that I meant that I’m not a player who bluffs and I think someone else is like me. That's why I don't usually turn my head when someone puts everything in it and has nothing in their hands. I think it’s hard to catch a bluffer if you lift well.

Rather than relying on tells, which you often dont have, you should look at the board, and how the hand played out. Have you shown weakness, and are there busted draws? Then its more likely, he is bluffing. Also remember that the goal is not to always be "right", because that is not possible. If your opponent bets half pot on the river, you should call, if you are good 1 out of 4 times, which is not all that often.

A lot of the time we also need to simply follow game theory a little bit and call with top of our range. If he bets half pot as a bluff, it needs to work 33% of the time, so to be indifferent to, what he is doing, we should call 2/3 of the time. This is sometimes called MDF, which stands for Minimum Defense Frequenzy. If we call more often than MDF, then he can value own us, but if we fold more, he can run us over.

Please note that MDF only include hands, that beat his bluffs. If our range contains hands like 7 high, because we were drawing to a flush or straight, then these hands are not included in our defense range, because Villain would also have won against them, if he had checked. So maybe against the half pot bet, we can actually sometimes fold 50% or more without making bluffing profitable.

In real time I dont sit and calculate my MDF every hand. The important is to get close enough and adapt to, what the general population in your games are doing. Maybe you can go by "rules" like second pair or top pair bad kicker being good for 2 bets on most runouts, while third pair or worse is only good for 1 bet.

So if two substantial bets have already gone in, and you have As4s on AcQh3s-8s-9d, then you should usually fold to another bet on the river. This will bring you reasonably close to MDF, because if two bets have already gone in, then As4s should be among your worst made hands, that you did not already check or fold.

My read is that snap raises are usually not bluffs. Raising takes a lot of effort to decide if the hand has good blockers or not and only very strong hands are obvious raises.

Originally Posted by RimworldDoctor

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

You're right. This is true.

Knowing the difference between a bluff catch and a stupid hero call going wrong is one of the most difficult skills one good player must have. As I remember, I did the one as much I did the other. Said that, I think the only way to identify a bluff is knowing the other player very well.

For me, I would say that in micro stakes, the bluffs are early and often in the tourneys while for the cash it is like the early stage of a micro tourney. I still haven't been able to come up with my own formula and it takes a while for me to figure the new table out on who is bluffing and why. I do not try to catch the bluffers until I am about 30 hands into the table and i have a fair representation of what each player is doing at that time.

I watch for the LAGgy types, they will bet and bluff at any weakness. call them more, let them hang themselves (eg. check call with top pair) - inducing bluffs.

Originally Posted by RimworldDoctor

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

Great advice!! It's always scary when they overbet the river, though hahaha

Any info or advice on here is always welcome. Thanks for the tips. Online is always a little tougher to read

If someone raises many times, they almost often bluff many times with a good chance. You don't know what to do with that. You have to wait for a better position and catch the fish.

Betting patterns. Online all we have is individual behavior patterns or a gut feeling.

Without reads or knowing the villian has a tendency to bluff at a high frequency - the best way to determine if it's a bluff or not:

Does the story the villian is telling make sense with that final bet? For example: If an obvious draw like a flush came in and they were calling along on flop and turn, are you sure its a bluff or is it because they made their flush? Sure some players get tricky and will bet out their draws OR even slow play big hands on flop, but without a read you need to figure out if the story or pattern of betting makes sense when they bet a river.

Is the easiest way to find out if a player is bluffing or not.Call the river!Then you will know for sure the player was bluffing or not)

Is the story they're selling make sense? I limped SB into the BB. We checked it down until he bet the river Ace. Would he have just called my limp with an Ace? I didn't think so, and caught his bluff.

Here is a hand I played tonight. What story is he selling, and does it make sense?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/2qExCvA

I feel any over pair would have raised pre flop. Any 6 or 7 would have bet the flop. I just didn't seem right. So I called.

Hello. One thing I do is observe how others play; rarely bets, probably not. Bets way too much, probably a bluff.

Some use the time to lie, others big bets, others small bets, the reality in my opinion is that you will only discover those opponents who lie to you after several hands and a good reading, when you have already seen that they have lied or when they bet But if you have the best game possible, there is no way to find out if you don't play multiple hands.




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In online poker there are not many indications to detect a bluff, so you have to be very attentive to its preflop game and its bet sizes, you could also use a HUD that indicates the player's vpip and thus know if it gets into many boats, etc

Bet sizing. Board texture (are there flush and or straight draws). On the river did the flush or straight draws miss? All of this could help you decide if someone is bluffing or not when added to what you've seen during the game.

Originally Posted by Dhendrixon

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

Thank you. It was helpful. I don't mind that much when I was bluffed as its part of the game. People do sometimes admit that they bluffed a hand and that tilts most people and leads to a chain of bad decisions. I try to avoid bluff catching, but, will definitely add it to the list of learnings I have to do.

Originally Posted by Rob Hobson

Is very hard to detect such a standard since there are so many bluffers at the online games mainly on the lower stakes.

Yea lower stake games are full with bluffing people... that’s why in the beginning you have 100‘s of people losing the tournaments in the first few minutes

Originally Posted by nikospov1

I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

It depends what you mean by bluffing. In order to succeed a meaningful bluff has to be large. If there is a 4 diamond board and you are facing a large bet heads up, the guy is obviously representing the nuts. Do you call without a flush? If he doesn't have a diamond, that's clearly a bluff, but if he has the jack rather than the ace, he might be hoping to get paid off. Massive problem, but only if you don't have the ace!

Originally Posted by nikospov1

I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

when they use a lot of their time bank is usually a good tell

Also worth considering if you played the hand in a way that would invite or induce bluffs, or if the bet is coming unprovoked.

I believe that if a player bets extremely low or extremely high on the river then they may be bluffing. I know that this is not a foolproof way to determine if someone is bluffing online or not but what way is?

In this regard, you need to play like a professional..it is diverse, so that the opponent could not determine and constantly wondered whether it was a bluff or not )

This bluff reading skill is creating after long time of poker play

Originally Posted by Dhendrixon

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

Well said bro, totally agree with you.

It's hard to feel the bluff in an online game. As stated here, if someone raises a lot, they bluff a lot. The worse thing, however, is that you have to have a fairly strong hand to check. And the worst thing is, when you have a strong hand and you know it's bluff you still lose, because the opponent on the turn or river will get good cards ... Nothing innovative, but it hurts twice

Originally Posted by Datdude1

I believe that if a player bets extremely low or extremely high on the river then they may be bluffing. I know that this is not a foolproof way to determine if someone is bluffing online or not but what way is?

I don't know see lot of river shoves when a plyer has made a strong hand. You think they would be worried about pushing opponents of the hand but suppose when people do call they make so much. But do not find excessive bets a definitive indicator but I do try and interpret odd betting patteens and patterns that donot make sense. And sometimes I have called those river shoves and gotknocked out and sometimes doubled up but am weary of those spots.

Originally Posted by nikospov1

I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

Getting a tell from a player on-line is really hard, some will over-bet the pot, others will shove all-in when they are bluffing, the problem is you get no information from them at all, and you really do have to be careful.
This is one reason I stay at low level stakes when playing on-line, Live games are a totally different game and the important thing to remember is to watch every hand played whether you are involved or not, because you can also watch the other players reactions to different situations, and pick up on some little tells that repeat themselves, when you are involved.
A player I used to come up against regularly, had a habit of straightening his cards so they lay exactly on top of each other when he had a good hand, but if he had rubbish he laid them down where they fell, because he showed no interest in them, and if he bet when the cards were neatly stacked I knew he had a monster, if they were dropped where they fell I knew he was bluffing, especially if he kept looking at his cards, to check during the hand.
On-line it is more down to you and how you play, that really matters, You cannot get any read's or tell's from players mannerisms or habits, so it comes down to your instincts and you have to ask yourself, would you have played the hand any different, in his position?
I really do have to be in the right mood to play well on-line, and sometimes when I know I am losing I will call an all-in from someone just to get the game over and go do something else, playing Micro/low stakes allows me to do this, without it costing me a fortune.

When the fun Stops, STOP!
(I Do)

I love this question.

It sounds like you are looking to be a well rounded player.

I believe that you have got to be able to think like your opponents. Are they bluffing is the question and the answer is usually in their actions.

I would suggest you take time to learn how to bluff. (Do this on a non-cash web site or with play money). Once you have learned how to bluff decently, you will be more able to spot a bluff. Everyone bluffs differently, but still have the same tendencies.
That is easier to experience than to have explained to you.

Even though we are playing for real money here, it is still good to go back and learn how to play different methods, thus improving our understandings of what the villan is up to and be able to adjust our defense to their type of play.

Observe how others play, bets way too much, probably a bluff.

Originally Posted by 8infinity8

Thank you. It was helpful. I don't mind that much when I was bluffed as its part of the game. People do sometimes admit that they bluffed a hand and that tilts most people and leads to a chain of bad decisions. I try to avoid bluff catching, but, will definitely add it to the list of learnings I have to do.

Poker is a game of hustlers hustling other hustlers..

It is a great feeling when you pull of a bluff to beat a bluffer. When you know they were bluffing, show it just to get a tilt out of them. Then don't show any more hands the rest of the game. This will most likely either chill them out or make them bluff more and then get caught, thus removing them from the game.

Another tactic that I will use is to raise a bluff (Or suspected bluff) as long as you believe a third player does have the hand. When the third player calls and the bluffer reraises, just get out of the hand. And you have set up a trap to help remove the bluffer.

Then you just need to deal with the third player.

Originally Posted by thedarkman

It depends what you mean by bluffing. In order to succeed a meaningful bluff has to be large. If there is a 4 diamond board and you are facing a large bet heads up, the guy is obviously representing the nuts. Do you call without a flush? If he doesn't have a diamond, that's clearly a bluff, but if he has the jack rather than the ace, he might be hoping to get paid off. Massive problem, but only if you don't have the ace!

I think a good way to judge if you have the higher flush would be how they bet on the flop. If they had high cards they would call a bigger opening or raise the bet themselves, since chances are they have the suited cards in the pocket. If they limped in, chances are they have a lower flush or just a bluff.

Originally Posted by David Gibson

Poker is a game of hustlers hustling other hustlers..

It is a great feeling when you pull of a bluff to beat a bluffer. When you know they were bluffing, show it just to get a tilt out of them. Then don't show any more hands the rest of the game. This will most likely either chill them out or make them bluff more and then get caught, thus removing them from the game.

Another tactic that I will use is to raise a bluff (Or suspected bluff) as long as you believe a third player does have the hand. When the third player calls and the bluffer reraises, just get out of the hand. And you have set up a trap to help remove the bluffer.

Then you just need to deal with the third player.

Oh, another side note to my post would be to use the bluff look when you are up against aggressive players. Really play it up. Get them in a trap and then take them to the bank.

Ive noticed that when I rfi oop and check the Flop there's a long hesitation from ip then finally he checks, if I lead the turn and he snaps then bombs the river, whether I check or lead, they always have it. Something about the way they hesitate on the Flop, it's like they are trying to decide what to do, play face up or trap. By checking they are hoping you bet turn, if you don't and they lead with anything over half pot, they have it if you lead they will call hoping you lead out on the river, so they can raise. No all this is supposing hero has no hand. Of course when you do male a hand you can use this strategy against them

Originally Posted by Dhendrixon

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

At first it is difficult to detect players who are bluffing, but after 20 hands or more you can get an idea of ​​the opponents' profile, the bad beats, donkeys, and passive players, some of them will give you an idea.

Originally Posted by nikospov1

I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

1) Are they betting like they have a hand too frequently? Many people who like to bluff are extremely imbalanced in their frequencies and 3bet pre, cbet, 2barrel and 3barrel all the time. or check/raise or donk all the time.

2) If the pot is big relative to their stack a jam is more likely to be a bluff - desperation bluffs are common

3) If an obvious draw bricks on the river - a missed draw is likely to bluff when checked to.

4) If your line is weak versus a player who likes to attack weakness - their bet is likely a bluff.

5) Many players have obvious bet sizing tells - large bets are value and small bets are bluffs; or vice versa - small bets to induce raises and big bets are bluffs

Sometimes I think you can get a timing tell, if the player instantly jams the flop its usually a polarized range ie really strong or air.

I'm in the beginning stages of learning when a player is bluffing or not so up until now I've been playing my cards. But now I think that I will implement another aspect of my online talent and figure out the bluffing tales online. When I figure this out I'll be back to let you know.

Hi!
For me, a clear sign of bluff is if the opponent begins to play his hands unconventionally(he goes off his usual draw line,and of course his bet sizes .)

Originally Posted by Dhendrixon

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

If waiting for straight or flush draw and starting betting before it gets there that count as a bluff?

I look at a players 3bet stat, if it's high then they like to 3bet light pre flop, which might mean they also get a little frisky post flop.

Originally Posted by TeUnit

Sometimes I think you can get a timing tell, if the player instantly jams the flop its usually a polarized range ie really strong or air.

Yep! and actually a strong play, don`t you think?

Originally Posted by WellAA

Yep! and actually a strong play, don`t you think?

I think it helps to know the villan, some players will really try to extract value and some just jam in excitement with strength.