I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

Originally Posted by nikospov1

I have a hard time figuring out when an online player is bluffing. I know bet sizes are a pretty easy sign and whether pre-flop raises are in play, but are there more subtle hints as to when an online player is bluffing?

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

Is very hard to detect such a standard since there are so many bluffers at the online games mainly on the lower stakes.

Originally Posted by Rob Hobson

Is very hard to detect such a standard since there are so many bluffers at the online games mainly on the lower stakes.

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

Originally Posted by RimworldDoctor

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

Seems early on in a tournament you have a fair amount of these. Gotta love those who play out of position with the largish Cbet, smallish turn, followed by a river bomb.

Of course you gotta have something to call that river bomb.

Watch for the quick jam on a runout that they should have had to think about. This is often a bluff.

When you catch a bluff take notes on how the hand went down and where he bluffed and if he barreled through or gave up. You would be surprised how often these notes have come in handy.

Hi!

I may be doing it wrong because I only play my cards. You might need to change this strategy and not just play from the cards because then you could win more. By that I meant that I’m not a player who bluffs and I think someone else is like me. That's why I don't usually turn my head when someone puts everything in it and has nothing in their hands. I think it’s hard to catch a bluffer if you lift well.

Rather than relying on tells, which you often dont have, you should look at the board, and how the hand played out. Have you shown weakness, and are there busted draws? Then its more likely, he is bluffing. Also remember that the goal is not to always be "right", because that is not possible. If your opponent bets half pot on the river, you should call, if you are good 1 out of 4 times, which is not all that often.

A lot of the time we also need to simply follow game theory a little bit and call with top of our range. If he bets half pot as a bluff, it needs to work 33% of the time, so to be indifferent to, what he is doing, we should call 2/3 of the time. This is sometimes called MDF, which stands for Minimum Defense Frequenzy. If we call more often than MDF, then he can value own us, but if we fold more, he can run us over.

Please note that MDF only include hands, that beat his bluffs. If our range contains hands like 7 high, because we were drawing to a flush or straight, then these hands are not included in our defense range, because Villain would also have won against them, if he had checked. So maybe against the half pot bet, we can actually sometimes fold 50% or more without making bluffing profitable.

In real time I dont sit and calculate my MDF every hand. The important is to get close enough and adapt to, what the general population in your games are doing. Maybe you can go by "rules" like second pair or top pair bad kicker being good for 2 bets on most runouts, while third pair or worse is only good for 1 bet.

So if two substantial bets have already gone in, and you have As4s on AcQh3s-8s-9d, then you should usually fold to another bet on the river. This will bring you reasonably close to MDF, because if two bets have already gone in, then As4s should be among your worst made hands, that you did not already check or fold.

My read is that snap raises are usually not bluffs. Raising takes a lot of effort to decide if the hand has good blockers or not and only very strong hands are obvious raises.

Originally Posted by RimworldDoctor

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

You're right. This is true.

Knowing the difference between a bluff catch and a stupid hero call going wrong is one of the most difficult skills one good player must have. As I remember, I did the one as much I did the other. Said that, I think the only way to identify a bluff is knowing the other player very well.

For me, I would say that in micro stakes, the bluffs are early and often in the tourneys while for the cash it is like the early stage of a micro tourney. I still haven't been able to come up with my own formula and it takes a while for me to figure the new table out on who is bluffing and why. I do not try to catch the bluffers until I am about 30 hands into the table and i have a fair representation of what each player is doing at that time.

I watch for the LAGgy types, they will bet and bluff at any weakness. call them more, let them hang themselves (eg. check call with top pair) - inducing bluffs.

Originally Posted by RimworldDoctor

My only success with detecting bluffers doesn't come from their fold/call speed or anything like that. It comes from their bet frequency.

After an array of checks, I've noticed many bluffers like to fire off a big one on the river. Sure, they could be slow playing me, but that's an EV negative move in the long run for them. If their story doesn't make sense by the river, I tend not to believe their bluffs.

Great advice!! It's always scary when they overbet the river, though hahaha

Any info or advice on here is always welcome. Thanks for the tips. Online is always a little tougher to read

If someone raises many times, they almost often bluff many times with a good chance. You don't know what to do with that. You have to wait for a better position and catch the fish.

Betting patterns. Online all we have is individual behavior patterns or a gut feeling.

Without reads or knowing the villian has a tendency to bluff at a high frequency - the best way to determine if it's a bluff or not:

Does the story the villian is telling make sense with that final bet? For example: If an obvious draw like a flush came in and they were calling along on flop and turn, are you sure its a bluff or is it because they made their flush? Sure some players get tricky and will bet out their draws OR even slow play big hands on flop, but without a read you need to figure out if the story or pattern of betting makes sense when they bet a river.

Is the easiest way to find out if a player is bluffing or not.Call the river!Then you will know for sure the player was bluffing or not)

Is the story they're selling make sense? I limped SB into the BB. We checked it down until he bet the river Ace. Would he have just called my limp with an Ace? I didn't think so, and caught his bluff.

Here is a hand I played tonight. What story is he selling, and does it make sense?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/2qExCvA

I feel any over pair would have raised pre flop. Any 6 or 7 would have bet the flop. I just didn't seem right. So I called.

Hello. One thing I do is observe how others play; rarely bets, probably not. Bets way too much, probably a bluff.

Some use the time to lie, others big bets, others small bets, the reality in my opinion is that you will only discover those opponents who lie to you after several hands and a good reading, when you have already seen that they have lied or when they bet But if you have the best game possible, there is no way to find out if you don't play multiple hands.




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In online poker there are not many indications to detect a bluff, so you have to be very attentive to its preflop game and its bet sizes, you could also use a HUD that indicates the player's vpip and thus know if it gets into many boats, etc

Bet sizing. Board texture (are there flush and or straight draws). On the river did the flush or straight draws miss? All of this could help you decide if someone is bluffing or not when added to what you've seen during the game.

Originally Posted by Dhendrixon

Can't always use bet sizing as a tell, a balanced player will use that for value betting some of the time or over betting some of the time creating a mixed strategy. For me, if I do not have a large hand history and notes, then I don't try to read a bluff too much. Have to look at their ranges they play from certain positions and gauge from there. Is there a missed flush or straight on the board? Have they played a similar hand the same way with a made straight or flush. What could they be bluffing with vs what made hands they have, etc. Just need to learn to bluff catch and know what blockers you have in your hand.

Thank you. It was helpful. I don't mind that much when I was bluffed as its part of the game. People do sometimes admit that they bluffed a hand and that tilts most people and leads to a chain of bad decisions. I try to avoid bluff catching, but, will definitely add it to the list of learnings I have to do.

Originally Posted by Rob Hobson

Is very hard to detect such a standard since there are so many bluffers at the online games mainly on the lower stakes.

Yea lower stake games are full with bluffing people... that’s why in the beginning you have 100‘s of people losing the tournaments in the first few minutes