Gutshot Gus
Visionary
Platinum Level
Who wants to see a fat and ugly old man sitting around in his skivvies scratchin'?
Integrity Check - How can an online poker room make you feel secure these days?
Gdefender
Rock Star
Platinum Level
I don't think that the operators of the poker sites can do much to reassure the players... Nowadays, fraudulent programs, hacking, etc. topics are starting to come to light... However, I have noticed for more than 10 years, which has unfortunately become commonplace, that completely unlucky sites take most of the pots on the tables, and the question about robot programs has been raised for a long time....Actually, in my heart, I would never play with an "online program", but the lack of time and the comfortable playing environment at home attract the majority of people to online games ..As for the cheats, I don't think they could calm me down with anything, that's why I only play at a hobby level...
Dmitriy_rus7
Visionary
Platinum Level
I think they already do a lot to make people feel safe playing poker online. if all this were doubtful, tens of thousands of people would stop playing online, but since people continue, it means not everything is so bad
bapfel
Legend
Loyaler
Sometimes I feel unsecure when on a site like GG Poker you play often a 3 or 6 player spin or gold and you have two or more players from the same country on one table, especially from China or Russia.. I think it could be a "crime band" working together.
Myself I try not to collect too big bankrolls on a page, so cash out every few months and do not deposit big amounts.
Myself I try not to collect too big bankrolls on a page, so cash out every few months and do not deposit big amounts.
Reload
Legend
Platinum Level
It's really difficult when you go search some new room, and leave places like pokerstars, acr, etc, and have sure that they play fair.
For me, the main thing is that when you win, you get easily your money, without any obstacles or difficult steps just to withdraw it.
Nowadays is sure that is so much more easy to rip off your money, so be careful.
For me, the main thing is that when you win, you get easily your money, without any obstacles or difficult steps just to withdraw it.
Nowadays is sure that is so much more easy to rip off your money, so be careful.
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
The poker rooms don't really want to eliminate bots and colludors and scammers/cheaters . If they ever decide to do so , they would be able to eliminate most cheaters . Excuses for advances AI solvers or assistance are not serious . There are ways to fight and minimise the total effect of these advanced AI scamming tools , the poker rooms lack the determination to do so .
Natta777
Legend
Platinum Level
I love poker too much and I try to ignore all the talk about bots and cheating. I always hope that the poker room security service does its job efficiently and detects fraud. They also conduct checks on players regularly. As for the cameras, I believe that this should happen at the request of the player, but not in any way forced.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Why would they not want to do that? Nearly all rooms have taken measures to "level the playing field" in the hope to attract and retain more net depositing players, since at the end of the day, they are the only reason, why rooms (or winning players) make money. PokerStars for instance has limited cash game players to 4 regular tables and also introduced something, they call a "dymanic waiting list". Which mean, that in order to go on a waiting list for a specific table, a player must accept a vacant seat on a similar table chosen by PokerStars.
These steps have clearly limited multitabling in cash games, and in themselfes reduced rake generation. But PokerStars have done it anyway, because they think, the reduced volume from regulars is compensated by more volume from net depositors. And if this is their way of thinking, then why on earth would they not want to eliminate any kind of cheating including the use of bots? Such a statement makes no sense at all. But of course just because sites would like to eliminate cheating, does not mean, they are achieving this goal 100%.
But with that being said I play on PokerStars almost every day. Mostly 5-10$ SnGs and 3,3-11$ MTTs. And my honest opinion is, that cheating in these games are extremely limited. I dont think, the regs are using bots, because they tend to have slightly different stats, and I also think, PokerStars have ways to detect the use of bots, which makes it at least difficult to get away with. Of course I cant know for sure, since the regs are not chatting. But I certainly dont sit every day and worry about getting cheated.
Sebbour
Visionary
Platinum Level
Since I'm playing mostly freerolls and micro buy ins I feel pretty much secure. I deposited only once in my life (and that was minimum so that I can withdraw the money from client) so I'm really relaxed with it (if I'd play for serious money I would be in same state as I'm now).
So, to answer the question, poker sites where I play cannot do much more to feel me more secure because I feel secured already.
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
i play very small stakes , many times less than a dollar . i don't believe rng behaves in a different way towards me , worse than you or anyone else that [plays more games and more expensive . so bad beats , bad rng results are universal . my problem is also many others'
when i play higher stakes , like $11 or $109 , cr**y bad beat results are worse
i will not talk about many , actually countless profiles in many poker rooms that make strange decisions . many of them might be bots . they disappear overnight . i have a special tag colour for suspected poker room bots , i see that most of these ''players'' cannot be seen again , strangely they disappear , even in microstakes .
if you have played online a lot , you know what i am talking about . and if you play a lot you must have faced more scammers or suspected bots than me , you must have noticed stange fixed rng results . if you defend a poker room , i wonder why you might be doing it .
if i see these crazy rng results or the system bots or player bots , if i see that poker room does nothing to change it , then i will not deposit on that poker room , i will not increase my gaming volume , i will not play higher stakes . other way would be meaningless .
the bad beats are killing me , my game sessions , my time , my $$$$$ bankroll . i cannot tolerate it . and i cannot tolerate ''players'' who try to defend a poker room . so many scams out there . meaningless to fight about whether there are bots or not . whether it is rigged or not . personally i am not stupid . i know what my eyes see . i know some things about odds . I see that the rng results on the long run do not respect odds logic , i see specific underdog hands winning most of the times or all times if there are enough players in the pot or when pot odds are good enough . then crazy calls get rewarded , most of the times . With good pot odds you might decide to take a risk with a marginal hand , but if you do this with 100bbs or more or in crazy spots and you win and if this win happens most of the times or almost every time , not just 20% or 30% or whatever of the times , then sth is clearly wrong .
also if bad beats happen early in a tourney or in small stakes and unimportant games is not as harmless as when this happens late in a tourney or in higher stakes or in crucial spots . unfortunately the bad beats happen most of the times in my case late in a tourney or in my most expensive buy ins . this is at least weird if not sth worse . this gives food to speech about rigged theories or scam rng
online poker is a scam . i am sorry to admit it . i know winners will defend the poker room , fish must remain in the poker ecosystem , in the tank . i know some people get paid by a poker room , directly or indirectly . why should i pay attention to their comments ??
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Just because you have not had success in online poker, does not mean, its all one giant scam. As discussed earlier in this thread, online poker is not a "get rich quick and easy" scheme. But while the majority per definition has to lose in a zero sum game with rake, there are plenty on long term winners. I have won $9,577 in tournaments on Pokerstars according to sharkscope, and this does not include any rakeback (which I dont get) or cash game winnings.
SharkScope - Online and Live Poker Statistics
Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.
I dont even want to calculate my hourly winrate, but at least its higher than the one, you get from playing freerolls or watching movies. Or check out the graphs of some of the SnG regs from the leaderboard. This guy is up $2.410 for the year, which is a pretty decent income in South East Asia, where he live.
SharkScope - Online and Live Poker Statistics
Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.
He has achieved this by simply playing a lot: 7.247 games, which is almost 200 games per day. And I bet you, he dont have time to worry about bad beats or the RNG. He know, that it all levels out in the long run. And this is the mentality, you also need to adobt, if you want to espace the "freeroll trap" and become a winning player.
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
The answer to your comments about stakes is in the first paragraph of my previous post .Just because you have not had success in online poker, does not mean, its all one giant scam. As discussed earlier in this thread, online poker is not a "get rich quick and easy" scheme. But while the majority per definition has to lose in a zero sum game with rake, there are plenty on long term winners. I have won $9,577 in tournaments on Pokerstars according to Sharkscope, and this does not include any rakeback (which I dont get) or cash game winnings.
SharkScope - Online and Live Poker Statistics
Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.www.sharkscope.com
I dont even want to calculate my hourly winrate, but at least its higher than the one, you get from playing freerolls or watching movies. Or check out the graphs of some of the SnG regs from the leaderboard. This guy is up $2.410 for the year, which is a pretty decent income in South East Asia, where he live.
SharkScope - Online and Live Poker Statistics
Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.
He has achieved this by simply playing a lot: 7.247 games, which is almost 200 games per day. And I bet you, he dont have time to worry about bad beats or the RNG. He know, that it all levels out in the long run. And this is the mentality, you also need to adobt, if you want to espace the "freeroll trap" and become a winning player.
The sun is shining , the sky is blue . I am not 10 , 15 or 20 years old . I am not naive . If I say black and you say white , clearly we cannot agree .
If you haven't noticed innumerable bots , countless fixed rigged RNG results , innumerable cases of players manipulating rng with specific betting decisions ( specific number of chips or BBs for ex ) , then the only thing I can say to you is "" good luck "" ...........
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S
Station_Master
Legend
Platinum Level
Honestly I have not noticed innumerable bots at low and microstakes. A bot would be programmed to play good poker, whereas most of my opponents play badly. Sure some of the regs are ok but they have their leaks too.
As for using specific bet sizes to manipulate the RNG I think this is in your head!
Bad beats are part of the game and will happen a reasonable amount as per the odds. Obviously though these are the hands you remember. Over 10,000 hands you will get cooled many times, this is just how the games works.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Exactly. When the best hand hold up, our expectations are just met, so we quickly forget about it. But when it dont hold up, there is a disconnect between our expectations and the actual outcome, and this tend to create an emotional reaction. The truth is, if our AA hold 5 times in a row against another hand, then we ran above the statistical mean, so we got lucky. But we tend to not perceive it that way.
ObbleeXY
Visionary
Bronze Level
I'd like to play only vs validated human users. Call it the "blood-red tick".
At least then I can play against non-validated humans as if they are bots.
You can trick/beat bots when you know they're a bot....but it isn't easy to tell.
we used to be able to determine this by encouraging chat. Previously, bots never engaged in chat. Now if bots are integrated wiuth CHAT GPT, then using this method (of chatting) to identify bots will be lost.
In the end, I'm playing fewer games online and depositing less cash across sites as the scourge of the bot continues to grow. We have zero visibility of what sites are actually doing to prevent this. From their point of view, if the presence of bots isn't actively driving down player niumbers, they probably won't be investing much time, effort or money into eradicating the problem.
I fear that this has already gone too far, and once regular players wake up to this fact, there will be a mass exodus from the current poker sites.
It's high time that the sites started telling us about what they're doing.
Cheers,
JT
At least then I can play against non-validated humans as if they are bots.
You can trick/beat bots when you know they're a bot....but it isn't easy to tell.
we used to be able to determine this by encouraging chat. Previously, bots never engaged in chat. Now if bots are integrated wiuth CHAT GPT, then using this method (of chatting) to identify bots will be lost.
In the end, I'm playing fewer games online and depositing less cash across sites as the scourge of the bot continues to grow. We have zero visibility of what sites are actually doing to prevent this. From their point of view, if the presence of bots isn't actively driving down player niumbers, they probably won't be investing much time, effort or money into eradicating the problem.
I fear that this has already gone too far, and once regular players wake up to this fact, there will be a mass exodus from the current poker sites.
It's high time that the sites started telling us about what they're doing.
Cheers,
JT
machinm19
Rock Star
Platinum Level
I would feel more secure if I buried my head in the sand and pretended super users do not exist. There is a reason PokerStars is based in Costa Rica and 888 in Gibraltar and it’s not the weather 😉 once super users came into existence only a blind and dumb fool would believe they just vanished and stopped doing it. That being said wherever money is then cheats and scammers will follow, I just see cheaters as a standard part of the game especially online but people cheat live too.
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
You make it sound like, "superusers" is some sort of special species, that suddenly appeared out of nowhere. But they are just cheaters, like there have been cheaters in live poker at all times. 17 years ago, in the early days on online poker, some employees at Absolute Poker / Ultimate Bet found a security leak and took advantage of it. The company went out of business a few years later. Now in 2024 there has been a case at GG Poker, where one or more users not related to GG Poker had found another security leak and took advantage of it. Its disappointing, that GG Poker did not have better security, but presumably they have fixed the problem now.
And just because we have had these two known cases in almost 25 years of online poker, does not mean, that everyone playing online poker have been cheated by superusers. Just as everyone, who have played on live steams, have not been cheated, just because Mike Postle did it on the Stones stream, where security was really lousy. I 2022 there was a lot of noise about Garrett Adelstein thinking, he had been cheated on the Hustler live stream. But most likely his opponent Robbi just misread her hand and thought, she had bottom pair rather than J high.
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Bummy
Rock Star
Platinum Level
In my opinion, there should be identification by phone number or other confirming method. At the very least, there should also be some kind of bot tracking system/or complaint system for suspicions that a given member is a bot.
machinm19
Rock Star
Platinum Level
machinm19
Rock Star
Platinum Level
Exactly my point. Only 2 cases in 20 odd years when the super user technology is proven and written in most sites terms and conditions. It stinks. I also agree their is cheating live too just like their is cheating in crypto or anywhere where money flows.
S
Station_Master
Legend
Platinum Level
888 is based in Gibraltar and is a publically listed company on th UK stock exchange. Why is that dodgy?
Inevitably Gibraltar has a more favourable tax regime for this type of company and hence it is based there. They will comply with the rules in Gibraltar that are inevitably more relaxed than many other countries. This is just business sense and doesnt make the site any more 'dodgy'.
Inevitably Gibraltar has a more favourable tax regime for this type of company and hence it is based there. They will comply with the rules in Gibraltar that are inevitably more relaxed than many other countries. This is just business sense and doesnt make the site any more 'dodgy'.