first hand AA

[Luvart]

Unlucky hand, but that stuff happen day after day.

Move on.

 

[LOOPY]

When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.

The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).

The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.

Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling... but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.

I really like your explanation and analysis!

 

[theoxy]

When there's too much action on a limped pot, better to fold i think.

 

[ADRI7HO]

Aces have to be played hard because, contrary to beliefs, they are vulnerable hands. Unfortunately, even with good play, a hand comes to the river, for example, which means defeat.

Poker is like that.

 

[Danieleli]

It's a limp raise technique
didn't have the action I wanted
but he played badly

Hi there

You cant assume it will take the way you want, you always have to consider all the options it can take and think what way is going to be most profitable on the long run.
It really happens to a lot of people who try to slowplay with Aces and not only them, you really need to be very cautious with the board playing aces (paired boards straight draws flush draws) and you will sometime have to fold aces because you cant really be winning. Its really unpleasant but it happens

 

[Danieleli]

with AA, you should try to overclock the pot as much as possible on the preflop and make sure that there are fewer people in the pot (ideally, it’s good to go all in preflop) because on the flop the value of AA can significantly decrease and the opponent, on the contrary, will strengthen his hand

Hi there , i cant agree with you about the saying that ideally you should go all in preflop. It can be a "good" play in small stakes but when you are facing players that have some knowledge is like one of the worsts palys that you can do. It will most of the times scares the others players and make your profit very low.

 

[Highsolation]

I would never ever limp with aces, that's the starting mistake.
With aces you have about 80% equity vs any other given hand, so it's not like when you have AA you are entitled to win.
It definitely sucks to be on the other 20%, as AA doesn't come ofter. But there's nothing we can do about it, it's part of the variance in Poker.
Myself had a hand with AA, villain raises me 3BB, I 3-bet reraise 15BB, he calls, flop comes 6 Q 2... Villain had 66 and I lost a big pot.

 

[zipocool]

Hi there , i cant agree with you about the saying that ideally you should go all in preflop. It can be a "good" play in small stakes but when you are facing players that have some knowledge is like one of the worsts palys that you can do. It will most of the times scares the others players and make your profit very low.

mathematically it is always more profitable for us to go all in preflop with AA since we will always have 70%+ to win but this is more true for tournaments where the stack depth will almost always be 20-30bb in cash games where we will almost always have a stack depth of 100bb we do not so often we will go all in preflop very often the game will go postflop unless it is some kind of cooler for example our opponent will be dealt KK

 

[Danieleli]

mathematically it is always more profitable for us to go all in preflop with AA since we will always have 70%+ to win but this is more true for tournaments where the stack depth will almost always be 20-30bb in cash games where we will almost always have a stack depth of 100bb we do not so often we will go all in preflop very often the game will go postflop unless it is some kind of cooler for example our opponent will be dealt KK

All right so we have more equity if we go all in preflop but i can assure you its no the most profitable play with Aces, sure it will be profitable but you dont want to scare people you want to bring them on the game. Unless you are talking about a situation where you ve raised and somene 3bets then you can 4bet all in, but if not you are just picking the easy way to play and its all right most of the times it will realize equity
Remember that the game is not pure Mathematics, its a game of people

 

[Comboss599]

I had thisn situation once last time. It seemed strange for me. I decided to go all in preflop and guess what?
I lost this hand and finished my tournament on first hand.

 

[zipocool]

All right so we have more equity if we go all in preflop but i can assure you its no the most profitable play with Aces, sure it will be profitable but you dont want to scare people you want to bring them on the game. Unless you are talking about a situation where you ve raised and somene 3bets then you can 4bet all in, but if not you are just picking the easy way to play and its all right most of the times it will realize equity
Remember that the game is not pure Mathematics, its a game of people

and it makes no sense for us with AA to involve a large number of people in the distribution, since there is a high probability that post-flop our hand will no longer be so strong and we will often be behind us to maximize our equity precisely on pre-flop

 

[StressMit]

AA is not very strong after that flop so no reason to push all in and out of the tournament just like that.

 

[Danieleli]

and it makes no sense for us with AA to involve a large number of people in the distribution, since there is a high probability that post-flop our hand will no longer be so strong and we will often be behind us to maximize our equity precisely on pre-flop

I already shared my toughts, hold on to yours if you think you are right, i'll just hold on to mine. o/
There is no worse deaf man than the one who doesn’t want to hear.