This happens to everyone. From your description, you limped, which you shouldn't have done because it's an AA hand that can lose, as happened to you.
Hello!:ciao:When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.
The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).
The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.
Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling... but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.
Hello!:ciao:
You, as always, are eloquent, and this pleases. I want to thank you for this very good answer.
when there's too much action on a limped pot, better to fold
When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.
The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).
The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.
Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling... but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.
When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.
The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).
The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.
Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling...but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.
Hello!:ciao:
You, as always, are eloquent, and this pleases. I want to thank you for this very good answer.
Indeed: the theory of implied coefficients explains this situation. You described it very accurately. And yes, the ideal solution here was not to let the player reach the flop or the turn. I often play hands like 56, 67, 78, 89. And it works well. In fact, this player did it. It's frustrating that AA is still seen by players as a nats hand... Not realizing that the odds of the win are about 60/40, and AA is pretty easy to beat - it all depends on the cards on the table.
Therefore, I repeat that the biggest mistake was to allow the player to reach the turn.:icon_thum
when there's too much action on a limped pot, better to fold
There is a lot of skill attached to playing AA to the river to try and extract max value but it is fraught with high risk as AA/KK/QQ often lose to players who crack it with 2prs amonsgt other "made" hands that they get there on the flop/Turn/River.
My advice is - know your opponents, study them if you can at the table but also consider pricing them to make a decision - if you are hell bent on not jamming all in because you feel they will fold - then you need to get enough value without necessarily going to the river to make the pot worthwhile.
Here is some further Cardschat thread discussion about playing AA pre flop and post flop.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/pocket-aces-463104/
Best Of Luck!
I limp 20 pot 60
action in 2 players 3 counting on me
:joyman:
the villain paid me double for the sequel
the worst and that hit the sequence
what an injustice this only happens to me
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