first hand AA

2x4x

2x4x

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I limp 20 pot 60
action in 2 players 3 counting on me
:joyman:
the villain paid me double for the sequel
the worst and that hit the sequence
what an injustice this only happens to me
 
A

alien666dj

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This happens to everyone. From your description, you limped, which you shouldn't have done because it's an AA hand that can lose, as happened to you.
 
2x4x

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This happens to everyone. From your description, you limped, which you shouldn't have done because it's an AA hand that can lose, as happened to you.

;)It's a limp raise technique
didn't have the action I wanted
but he played badly
 
Ssssssnakes

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At that stage of the game you should have raised him preflop. Reason is because your time investment has only been little in case he calls and you lose. On the other hand if he folds, you you won't have lost much opportunity (despite the nice pockets), because your hand can only get worse, while his hand can become stronger irrespective of what he is holding. The latter is because there's only two aces left in the deck while there is six cards left that could fit even to a 2&7 hand. The later it is in the tournament, the more it makes sense to lure them in. If you lose then against this kind of hand, well, that's bad luck or you haven't read him correctly (eg his stack).
 
Alizona

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When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.

The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).

The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.

Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. :) I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling... but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.
 
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zapadlol

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Hi all! I have already said that such hands as AA AK KK should be insured by the organizers from moving weak hands preflop at least! the $2650 tournament GETS ridiculous when KK is beaten in an A7 all-in!
 
Chica_bonita

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When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.

The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).

The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.

Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. :) I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling... but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.
Hello!:ciao:
You, as always, are eloquent, and this pleases. I want to thank you for this very good answer.
throb.gif
throb.gif
throb.gif

Indeed: the theory of implied coefficients explains this situation. You described it very accurately. And yes, the ideal solution here was not to let the player reach the flop or the turn. I often play hands like 56, 67, 78, 89. And it works well. In fact, this player did it. It's frustrating that AA is still seen by players as a nats hand... Not realizing that the odds of the win are about 60/40, and AA is pretty easy to beat - it all depends on the cards on the table.
Therefore, I repeat that the biggest mistake was to allow the player to reach the turn.:icon_thum
 
marvinsytan

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when there's too much action on a limped pot, better to fold
 
Alizona

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Hello!:ciao:
You, as always, are eloquent, and this pleases. I want to thank you for this very good answer.
throb.gif
throb.gif
throb.gif

Thank you for the compliment, Chica bonita! I always try to help people out and hope my answers are good advice.

when there's too much action on a limped pot, better to fold

Yes indeed. Another way to put it is... when all the chips go into the middle, an unimproved hand (even as good as AA) is usually not going to win, so you have to learn to fold these hands when stacks are deep and our opponent seems willing to create a big pot. If stacks are very short (such as later in the tournament), we usually should take our chances with our big pair... but in the early levels of a tournament, it becomes extremely important to understand the concept of "a big pot requires a big hand" and AA is **NOT** a "big hand" here when all the chips go in! It's just a good one-pair hand and that's usually not good enough.
 
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P

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When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.

The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).

The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.

Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. :) I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling... but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.


I made this mistake today,where i had 66 on SB and i just call,We go to the flop,and it comes out 6 Q K.Now i thought i was smart and i check,he min calls,and i call.River is J.Keep in mind Q K J all spades.I get skeptical here,but the player just calls 4800(min 2000).I again,just call.Last card is an ace,and i again just check.He shoves all in and im too scared so i fold.I probably should have re raised flop.What do you think?Kind regards.
 
pirateglenn

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There is a lot of skill attached to playing AA to the river to try and extract max value but it is fraught with high risk as AA/KK/QQ often lose to players who crack it with 2prs amonsgt other "made" hands that they get there on the flop/Turn/River.

My advice is - know your opponents, study them if you can at the table but also consider pricing them to make a decision - if you are hell bent on not jamming all in because you feel they will fold - then you need to get enough value without necessarily going to the river to make the pot worthwhile.

Here is some further Cardschat thread discussion about playing AA pre flop and post flop.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/pocket-aces-463104/

Best Of Luck!
 
2x4x

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When stacks are deep, hand values change quite a bit. The early levels of a tournament are the only time we get to play deep-stacked poker which is identical to how cash games play. In deep-stacked poker, the premium hands go down in value, while the non-premium or "junk" hands increase in value. This is a concept called "implied odds" so research that term. This has also been called "small ball" poker, Daniel Negreanu wrote all about it in his book "Power Holdem Strategy" but you don't need to find that book and read it, you simply need to understand the idea of implied odds and how to use it.

The beauty of playing a hand like 65 when the blinds are low is PRECISELY because it can stack a player who has AA and cannot fold it. I used to be such a player who would lose a huge pot with AA in level one, I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took me many years to do so (and I'm still vulnerable to it even today).

The beauty of small ball poker is that your decisions are very easy. 65s will either flop a chance to make a flush or a straight, or it won't. Usually it won't, of course, but the beauty is, that makes it very easy to fold and you really didn't lose very much in the hand.

Your only real mistake here was limping preflop with such a big hand. You gave this player good odds to stack your hand with their "junk" hand, that's what is meant by "implied odds". AA has REVERSE implied odds when you don't raise enough to "price out" drawing hands. Sometimes our opponent won't understand pot odds and will call anyway, but that is gonna happen sometimes. All we can do is shrug it off. But if you limp and bet small and allow these hands to see turns and rivers, you are basically giving them the rope to hang you with, and thus it is actually your fault, no theirs. :) I feel your pain, don't misunderstand - it sucks that this happened to you, but it is a valuable lesson to learn. If you just shoved the flop, the 65s is never calling...but then you win a very small pot of course - so that's probably not the ideal strategy here either. But somewhere in the middle of "limping in for 20" versus "shoving all-in for 1500 chips" is the correct answer to this problem. Hope this helps! Best wishes.

in my point of view
I think the opponent's call was bad
if he had 2 overcards it was even explained
the call was bad and the variance got me
good player counts the bad
unfortunately justice happens that does not apply in poker

Hello!:ciao:
You, as always, are eloquent, and this pleases. I want to thank you for this very good answer.
throb.gif
throb.gif
throb.gif

Indeed: the theory of implied coefficients explains this situation. You described it very accurately. And yes, the ideal solution here was not to let the player reach the flop or the turn. I often play hands like 56, 67, 78, 89. And it works well. In fact, this player did it. It's frustrating that AA is still seen by players as a nats hand... Not realizing that the odds of the win are about 60/40, and AA is pretty easy to beat - it all depends on the cards on the table.
Therefore, I repeat that the biggest mistake was to allow the player to reach the turn.:icon_thum

you are very innocent
not poker
for you to win chips
you have to be brave and so is your opponent
want peace and rest go to disney
here and war

when there's too much action on a limped pot, better to fold

it wasn't my case

There is a lot of skill attached to playing AA to the river to try and extract max value but it is fraught with high risk as AA/KK/QQ often lose to players who crack it with 2prs amonsgt other "made" hands that they get there on the flop/Turn/River.

My advice is - know your opponents, study them if you can at the table but also consider pricing them to make a decision - if you are hell bent on not jamming all in because you feel they will fold - then you need to get enough value without necessarily going to the river to make the pot worthwhile.

Here is some further Cardschat thread discussion about playing AA pre flop and post flop.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/pocket-aces-463104/

Best Of Luck!


I liked it, I'll check it out
 
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pokerace_1

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Limp with aces is a crime :) besides it is also a minus action
 
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You should never limp or trap preflop with aces. :ac4::as4:

But, how much are you supposed to raise? Well, that depends on your position, the action before you, is it a deep stack game, and the stage of the game. (early game, middle game, bubble, in the money, final table)

Ideally, you want to raise at least 3 big blinds, plus a BB for every limper before you if you're in middle to late position.

If there is a raise before it gets to you, add that amount to the previous limp-only count, or 10x BB, whichever is greater.

If there is a raise and a re-raise, come over the top with a raise that is 10 times more than the previous raiser. You don't want to see a flop, but if you do, you want it to be head's up.
 
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bogdanov_va

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When I first started playing poker and I was dealt AA, I made a big mistake and limp. As a result - in 90% of the hands I just gave away most of the pot (
Now I play a check/call and the percentage of winnings with this hand increased.
 
pirateglenn

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I think ive got a clip somewhere of both Lex Veldhuis and also Spraggy being dealt AA as a first hand in the mini marathon and both of them got cracked - made me laugh so much as its good to see the Immortals face good old RNG and variance.
 
afecho

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I've for sure learned the hard way that limping in with AA is a bad move. I'm sure I've lost over 75% by doing that and even worse, I can't walk away and it always ends up costing me too much. I am starting to play it more aggressive now and it's been working better for me.
 
willjosp

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sometimes it has also happened to me and it is more common than one thinks in these tables of many players many cards that are folead and those connected cards have a lot of opportunity to make a straight or flush :eek:
 
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This looks like what exactly happened to me, except the play was little different.
I was BB, and the first hand I was dealt AA.
The UTG went All In, of course I called.
He had 67 Clubs.
Wouldn’t you know he caught the flush on the River.
Shit happens. Lol.
 
Kenzie 96

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I limp 20 pot 60
action in 2 players 3 counting on me
:joyman:
the villain paid me double for the sequel
the worst and that hit the sequence
what an injustice this only happens to me
View attachment 300112



When you wish to start a Phil Helmuth thread ie;" I am the greatest, if it weren't for bad luck, which only happens to me, I would never lose a hand." Please start your thread with the following caveat:
I am posting this thread so the membership may benefit from my knowledge.
Please do not insult me by implying that I might be able to benefit from your experience or supposed knowledge.
Please do not waste your time suggesting an opinion other than my own could possibly be of value, you will only embarrass yourself.


This should save time for both yourself & those members trying to help those who wish to improve their poker skills.

Good luck & very much looking forward to seeing you at the tables soon & hey, have a great day. :)
 
nelomec

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This is normal, its happens to everyone, the things here is that most of the time, premium hands will always lose in the first round of the tournament, the right thing is to play passively the first hands of the tournament
 
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with AA, you should try to overclock the pot as much as possible on the preflop and make sure that there are fewer people in the pot (ideally, it’s good to go all in preflop) because on the flop the value of AA can significantly decrease and the opponent, on the contrary, will strengthen his hand
 
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This happens to me all the time.

Sitting with a great full-house and losing with a poor four of a set for example.
 
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I have figer outed that if I play tournament with normal speed that I dont need to go all in on AA I should just wait for first 3 cards to open and if it is necessary even fold on AA,it is sometimes not important which hands you have in hands,it is important that you have also good hands in table.
 
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