Betting into pre-flop aggressor

[NoWuckingFurries]

Just started playing poker again after six and a half years away. Usually play MTTs but PS kindly gave me some $1 SNG tickets and it seemed rude not to use them. When I used to play, someone betting postflop into the pre-flop aggressor was looked down on. Is it different in SNGs, or is this considered to be a donk bet?

Please feel free to move this somewhere else if I've posted it in the wrong place.

 

[EvertonGirl]

Welcome back, I think it's still considered a donk bet, I've been out the loop for a bit too 😂

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Thanks. I notice a lot of people limping as well, initially I thought that they might be set mining - but they weren't. Maybe it's just a microstakes/weekend thing...

 

[Dorugremon]

When I used to play, someone betting postflop into the pre-flop aggressor was looked down on. Is it different in SNGs, or is this considered to be a donk bet?

Please feel free to move this somewhere else if I've posted it in the wrong place.

Been out of the loop for awhile, I see. A "donk" bet used to be seen as a weak move from a player not too confident of his hand. Betting into the pre-flop aggressor basically meant: "Please give me the pot". These days, you'll still see that, but if you get bet into on a dry board, something like (Tc, 6d, 3s) look out! Your pocket aces probably are no good here. The villain can see how dry that is, and knows he's probably looking at a check-back if he checks his set. Not wanting to miss a street of value, he leads out instead. Maybe not the best strategy, but it works.

"Thanks. I notice a lot of people limping as well, initially I thought that they might be set mining - but they weren't. Maybe it's just a microstakes/weekend thing..."

Probably a hold-over from fixed limit play. In fixed limit, you can raise only a mimimum amount. Unless you're at an especially foldy table, then why risk the extra chips when you know you're getting called anyway? So just limp, and if you have to fold after the flop, you've saved a couple of chips. If you hit, you can begin to figure out how to get the most chips in the center. At NL, open limping is a triple whammy: you give up the chance to lock away the dead money uncontested, you're telling your opponents you aren't very confident, inviting them to raise with better hands, or no hand at all, If you have an open limp range, you need to protect it. That means open limping with hands good enough to raise, and that costs you EV. Just don't do it. If it's not good enough to open with a raise, just muck it and wait for the next one.

 

[Goggelheimer]

Just started playing poker again after six and a half years away. Usually play MTTs but PS kindly gave me some $1 SNG tickets and it seemed rude not to use them. When I used to play, someone betting postflop into the pre-flop aggressor was looked down on. Is it different in SNGs, or is this considered to be a donk bet?

Please feel free to move this somewhere else if I've posted it in the wrong place.

It is still called "donk bet.
But the image as weak move has changed to be an accepted move.
Keep your eyes open on every kind of board and on later streets if the preflop agressor plays back or calls.
Maybe it's not the most profitable move since every thinking player
that has missed the flop with a non paired hand may directly fold
if there are no chances to take the pot down later (with any kind of nut flush, nut straight).

 

[Goggelheimer]

Thanks. I notice a lot of people limping as well, initially I thought that they might be set mining - but they weren't. Maybe it's just a microstakes/weekend thing...

Limping is quite common on microstakes, and a lot more multiway hands that are very tricky.
Fold equity is a thing that is less existant in todays games.
A much more postflop heavy game is todays bread and butter play.
Early raises with AK, AQ, AJ are a much trickier to play today because of suited cards and (suited) connector callers in LP.
A TPTK hand is today a hard playable hand out of position.

 

[EvertonGirl]

Thanks. I notice a lot of people limping as well, initially I thought that they might be set mining - but they weren't. Maybe it's just a microstakes/weekend thing...

Definitely a microstakes thing, I just wait for a hand to punish them with muhahaha

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

It depends on if the board is too wet for a flopped set or top pr/top kicker. If I call a pf bet from the SB w/88 and flop a set w/flush and/or straight draws on board I might lead out if they have a bigger stack; make some nice little just under half pot size v-bet and go from there.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

It depends on if the board is too wet for a flopped set or top pr/top kicker. If I call a pf bet from the SB w/88 and flop a set w/flush and/or straight draws on board I might lead out if they have a bigger stack; make some nice little just under half pot size v-bet and go from there.

Part of the challenge is that I'm trying to play analytically like that, but a lot of people that I'm playing against don't seem to be quite so analytical, to put it politely. These people seem to be in love with ace rag, even in early position and generally play really loosely. Good for me really, as I only have to watch out for the two or three at the table that appear to be playing more analytically, the others quite rapidly seem to be knocked out of the SNG

 

[jonaselloco]

Hello brother
Well, first of all, welcome back to the tables.
Look, that play is still called "the donkey play"
Years ago you did not have too many players of this type, but today you will see them very often.
In some cases they have changed the attitude. For example, if you opened with 3 bet for example and this player called you, and the flop was and he made the play of the donkey, you automatically already knew that he had minimally the , and well you followed the play as he showdown was getting clearer.
Today the play of the donkey is used by many when, for example, you open again with 3 bet, but the player who pays you does so with a medium combo, for example and the flop comes out , so they generally face that situation they go there first. In other words, they want to tell you "look, I can have this situation, and I can improve until I get the nuts" and well, they throw the ball at you. In other words, this donk player became a bingo player too.
And in certain situations in an MTT that you get this hand with a mixed donk/bingo player is a pretty dangerous combo, where luck should help you.
Yesterday, precisely in the final stages among the last 20 players, I was in position 12 and I ran into a play of this type in which I decided to pay because I had a highly won hand on the turn with a set of 7, and this villain went there for me. with a combo of this type and luck helped him.
In other words, on the river today many times this play is Russian roulette, either the bullet hits you or the bullet hits him.
Well, today another thing that changed a lot is that you play much more allin from different positions, or like for example today in an MTT the player that I had to my left in BB went allin like 7 times to a player who was doing openraise from CO, and he never paid. It is clear that he knew him, because when he went against heads-up he always did it the same way, and the CO always folded.
Nowadays limp players have also become quite dangerous. I've seen plenty of times that they limp with AA from UTG or UTG 1. It's a dangerous play indeed, but there's some logic to it. Because years ago, players were aggressive when they should be aggressive. Today they have already been taught that the only way to win is to be aggressive, and in truth it is not so. And this is something that limp players take advantage of quite well.
Well that's all bro.
Greetings and welcome back

 

[fundiver199]

Leading into the previous street aggressor is still called "donk betting", but there is more understanding today, that its sometimes good strategy and not at all a move only used by bad players AKA "donks". With that being said bad players still do a lot more donk betting than good players especially on the flop, and they often do it in spots, where its not a good strategy.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Nowadays limp players have also become quite dangerous. I've seen plenty of times that they limp with AA from UTG or UTG 1.

I encountered that exact situation in an MTT last weekend, funnily enough. A player had just joined our table and limped UTG, so I automatically thought 'Oh no, not another one'. Couple of people simply called the limper, hoping to see a cheap flop, then somebody raised. UTG shoved all in and it turned out that he had AA. So all was not quite as straighforward as it had originally appeared...

 

[jonaselloco]

I encountered that exact situation in an MTT last weekend, funnily enough. A player had just joined our table and limped UTG, so I automatically thought 'Oh no, not another one'. Couple of people simply called the limper, hoping to see a cheap flop, then somebody raised. UTG shoved all in and it turned out that he had AA. So all was not quite as straighforward as it had originally appeared...

Of course brother sure is like that.
What's more, this shows that we are too old for this and we must update ourselves hahahahaha
Greetings