Where do you draw the line?

RiverNoHelp

RiverNoHelp

Rock Star
So, I have an interesting conundrum.. My friends and I get together every Tuesday to play Hold em.. I believe that aside from one other player in our group I am the best player of the bunch.. We switched from Tournament style to cash games about 10 weeks ago.. Of those 10 weeks I have only booked one loss which was for just $1.50.. So I consistently make money every week while one of the players in the group;my best friend; consistently loses.. His tells are ridiculously easy to spot and he is such a rock that when he bets pretty much everyone folds so he's never able to get payed off on his hands.. He's a hunch player instead of a numbers player.. For instance I just last week I was trying to explain pot odds to him and it seemed like everything I was saying was going right over his head.. I think he wants to learn how to play better but he isn't willing to put the time in to do it..

Ok,now that I've given a ton of backstory, on to the question.. When you play in a game with your friends how often do you attempt to help your friends become better players.. I struggle with this because I want to make money and if I help someone get better that directly affects my profit..However, I feel for my friend and I'm tired of seeing him get beat up every week.. He has learned a great deal since we started playing but he's got so much further to go to be a successful player.. I want him to be able to compete because I believe it can directly improve the quality of my game while at the same time possibly affecting the amount of money i'm able to win.. It's a hard spot to be in and I was interested if anyone in the board has any similar experiences as well..Thanks ladies and germs..
 
M

Mad_Mike989

Guest
I offer the help but not gonna force it on them. They think they are good players I say let your numbers be the judge.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
If they asked me for my help, I would definitely help them. That's what friends are for. I probably wouldn't just offer them help out of the blue, though... I mean, they might just get offended at the suggestion anyway. It partly depends on if they think they're a good player or not.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
I'm the same way in general. If they ask, I will help. I will even occasionally offer suggestion to a good friend. If they take it and run with it is up to them. The other thing is what limit are you playing? You said that only one week was a loss for $1.50. Was that because you play low stakes/micro limit? Or just happened to be that close to break even? The reason I ask is because if I was playing very low limits I would be more apt to help out a friend because we are there to play and have fun. Once the limits start creeping up, it is more serious and I am less apt to help someone.
 
smd173

smd173

Cardschat Elite
I've helped one of my friends get better in our home game. It has impacted me at times though. There is one player who is very aggressive against my friend and my friend will always roll over. Yet if I play the same way against him, he'll call me every time. Therefore I had to change how I play against my friend.

I believe it's possible to help your friends improve and still take care of yourself. At the end of the day, if you are playing smart poker, there will be very little anyone can do to stop you.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Awards
1
If you playing a low limits (fun) game with friends I would be inclinded to help him. I wouldnt force information on him either though, Id point him in the right direction, loan him a book or two and let him do his own groundwork.

The arguement is there to let him alone losing him money to you. We had a very successful Monday night game up to about 6 months ago, two of the games producers (big losers) cottened on to what was happening and left the game, the other 2 minor producers insisted on a limit drop, and we lost 2 half decent break even players. IE the game broke up...... Dont be afraid to allow some information through to even the worst players....
 
talkpkr2me

talkpkr2me

Visionary
I would definately help him...Is he first and foremost your friend? Or has he become just an ATM to you?...:eek: ....Of course in your home game everyone is hoping to make a profit but even given that,it is still a game being played by a table of "friends"...I say help him,it might make you both better..Frankly,if he's that transparent and you take him every week because of that,you aren't really learning or improving yourself either..So,help the poor guy!:)
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

Cardschat Elite
Gord962 and I have a friend who is a calling station and loses everything in his pockets every time we have a home game. We have both told him, many times, that he does not need to see every flop and call down to the river when he has nothing.

Its only taken a year or so but he is finally starting to tighten up a bit. He still loses all his money but it lasts a little longer. :D

Yes I want to win money at the home games but our buy in is only $20 so I try to give a little advice, after the game. lol
 
Tammy

Tammy

Moderator
Moderator
Awards
10
Tell him to join Cardschat. :)

For the really new newbies, we'd have a practice hand or two so that they can get the gist of what's going on. After that, if we're not in the hand we would help them out. Mind you this is a home game atmosphere, with very good friends who would all give you the shirt off their backs if need be...in mixed company this probably wouldn't go over very well.
 
RiverNoHelp

RiverNoHelp

Rock Star
I'm the same way in general. If they ask, I will help. I will even occasionally offer suggestion to a good friend. If they take it and run with it is up to them. The other thing is what limit are you playing? You said that only one week was a loss for $1.50. Was that because you play low stakes/micro limit? Or just happened to be that close to break even? The reason I ask is because if I was playing very low limits I would be more apt to help out a friend because we are there to play and have fun. Once the limits start creeping up, it is more serious and I am less apt to help someone.

We play a $20 buy in cash game.. Blinds are only a $.25..It is No Limit..Even though the limits seem small we've had some pretty good pots, one of which i can remember was for $38.00.. If you play TAG, you can make some pretty good change each night as I have..Here are my profits/losses since we started playing cash games instead of tournies.. All of the below exclude the $20 buy in and deal in terms of just profit or loss.. +12.00, +18.00, +9.00, -$1.50, +46.00, +4.50, +18.75, +24.00
 
RiverNoHelp

RiverNoHelp

Rock Star
I would definately help him...Is he first and foremost your friend? Or has he become just an ATM to you?...:eek: ....Of course in your home game everyone is hoping to make a profit but even given that,it is still a game being played by a table of "friends"...I say help him,it might make you both better..Frankly,if he's that transparent and you take him every week because of that,you aren't really learning or improving yourself either..So,help the poor guy!:)

Is is a very good friend yes, has been for over 15 years now..In terms of poker however I don't look at it as taking "his" money.. Once the money has been exchanged for chips I am there to take as many chips from possible from whoever will give them to me.. He is very transparent though, let me give you an example.. There was a hand several weeks ago where I was UTG with Ace Queen Suited..I opened for a raise and my friend sitting to my left popped it up another $1 or so.. Which is of course the correct play if you are holding a premium hand.. However the fact is that he never ever raises, he strictly calls and everyone knows this..The bet goes around the table to a player in the SB who re-raises.. So I think to myself ok the worst player in the game has re-raised me and another player who knows my friend just as well as me has re-raised him.. I couldn't fold my Ace Queen fast enough..Turns out my friend had Kings and the SB had Aces..Basically the jist of the story is that if my friend did not re-raise me I may have got suckered into calling the SB's raise when it got to him which saved me alot of money.. I don't know if this is the best example of how predictable he is but I think it comes pretty close..
 
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