Someone else mucked my cards

[Beanfacekilla]

Exactly. But if we were playing Dodgeball Poker, you would definitely have to up your game from the finger cage - one touch and you're out. If you protect the four sides, I can go for the corners or vice versa. It would have to be a "finger wall" at the very least.

Fair enough. Lol.

 

[Joe]

There was that poor French lady who moved all in short-stacked in the wsop ME, she had aces but the dealer mistakenly collected her cards thinking she'd folded.. Her hand in the end was ruled dead.. She was able to keep her all-in bet but her chips already in the pot were lost. Sad times!

Said it before, will say it again...

Card protectors! (A chip or object on top of your hole cards mean that they will not be deemed dead when mucked cards touch or land on top of them)

 

[Poker_Mike]

It doesn't seem fair what happened to you. I use a chip as a card protector to avoid these situations.

Yes....I always toss a chip on top of my cards to avoid such a situation.

Some players like fancy card protectors. Disks commemorating other poker events or poker rooms, silver currency, a chip from another poker room (so it is not legal currency at the place you are at). I have even used a fortune cookie from my meal LOL

Good luck !

 

[duson]

The tournament director's decision does sound flimsy but you can't really do much about it. I know in live you protect your chips and your cards or you run the risk of weird stuff like this happening, its unfortunate but it happens a lot especially in private games.

 

[Chemist]

Option (4) BB should have handed over the 4k to each of you for mucking like an idiot.

 

[NeZlo4]

In a small pub Holdem tournament run by a guy who is normally great at making decisions after unusual events, the following occurred:
With big Blinds on 2,000. I was dealing and had AK. Everyone folded round to me and I limped with 2,000. Small Blind shoved 4,000. Big blind folded and I snap called (from my 7,000 stack) declaring AK. When I went to turn my cards over, I saw there were 4 cards in front of me. What I hadn't noticed was that the BB's mucked cards had accidentally been thrown across the rather narrow table and ended up on top of mine. "All in" turned over JQ. Then a discussion started about "touching mucked cards" so my hand should be voided (even though behind the betting line). I knew I had AK and BB confirmed his cards (not a problem with only 4 cards to sort out), so I felt it was completely unjustified to have to give up the hand through no fault of my own, and to more than double up a person who was very likely to have been knocked out.
The tournament director said that unfortunately "those were the rules". I said under the circumstances this was a very unfair decision. Later he did concede that I should only have lost 2,000 as my cards were "dead" when I called the "All In".
In my view there were three options:
(1) The "rules are rules" situation decribed above.
(2) In the spirit of "fair play", and with no chance of the 4 cards being mixed up, the TD could have agreed to play out the heads up showdown.
(3) We could have voided the hand and taken chips back.
Any thoughts / comments would be appreciated.

I think here the first option - (1) the "rules are rules" situation decribed above.

 

[Kooljackai]

Whenever he looks super strong, muck your cards directly at his hand. If you hit them, he's out. Dodgeball Poker! Or... he will make up a rule that you can't throw your mucks into someone else's hand. :idea:

this is hilarious. LMAO!!!! People always talking about live poker being so good but they have the strangest rules when it comes to logical semantics. Like for example all live games in any casino if you act out of turn it doesnt count. so you can act out of turn purposefully to get a read on opponent its virtually the wild wild west rewarding anglers. this is the Pro to online poker that people often overlook when comparing the two.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

this is hilarious. LMAO!!!! People always talking about live poker being so good but they have the strangest rules when it comes to logical semantics. Like for example all live games in any casino if you act out of turn it doesnt count. so you can act out of turn purposefully to get a read on opponent its virtually the wild wild west rewarding anglers. this is the Pro to online poker that people often overlook when comparing the two.

Actually, if you act out of turn, and no one changes the action, the action stands.

 

[Kooljackai]

Actually, if you act out of turn, and no one changes the action, the action stands.

how do you mean noone changes the action exactly?


I watch a lot of Live at The Bike Casino poker stream, and This is where I heard this information. So when Dan and Ryan and Gary say something like this I suspect they are right over your version of it.

https://www.texasholdem-king.com/poker-terms/acting-out-of-turn/

https://poker.stackexchange.com/questions/8665/acting-out-of-turn

My sources cite instances where there is no direct penalty and are lien-ant to enforcing reprimands are actions that directly cause penalty for this buddy

 

[Beanfacekilla]

how do you mean noone changes the action exactly?


I watch a lot of Live at The Bike Casino poker stream, and This is where I heard this information. So when Dan and Ryan and Gary say something like this I suspect they are right over your version of it.

https://www.texasholdem-king.com/poker-terms/acting-out-of-turn/

https://poker.stackexchange.com/questions/8665/acting-out-of-turn

My sources cite instances where there is no direct penalty and are lien-ant to enforcing reprimands are actions that directly cause penalty for this buddy

They may be right. Different places, different rules. Every poker room I've ever played in, if you bet out of turn, and no one changes the action (like everyone still checks to the person who bet out of turn), the bet stands.

I'm pretty sure that's in "Robert's Rules" too.

 

[Zorba]

Exactly. But if we were playing Dodgeball Poker, you would definitely have to up your game from the finger cage - one touch and you're out. If you protect the four sides, I can go for the corners or vice versa. It would have to be a "finger wall" at the very least.

Are you taking into consideration the aerodynamics of playing cards. Do you know of a way to ensure hitting the opponents hole cards.

So if I'm folding after the river, can I throw my cards onto the opponents cards if I don't verbalise my fold and then we split the pot if HU as both hands will be void? :hmmmm:

:elefant:

 

[mtl mile end]

Are you taking into consideration the aerodynamics of playing cards. Do you know of a way to ensure hitting the opponents hole cards.

So if I'm folding after the river, can I throw my cards onto the opponents cards if I don't verbalise my fold and then we split the pot if HU as both hands will be void? :hmmmm:

:elefant:

A lifetime of experience throwing cards makes me confident I can hit anyone's hand. If necessary, the first card can be used to inflict damage to the fingers causing a reactionary recoil and an opening in which to fire the second "bullet" at the unprotected (card) hand.


I would consider this an angle, you loser. :deal: I am a playing card thrower, not an angle shooter.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

Are you taking into consideration the aerodynamics of playing cards. Do you know of a way to ensure hitting the opponents hole cards.

So if I'm folding after the river, can I throw my cards onto the opponents cards if I don't verbalise my fold and then we split the pot if HU as both hands will be void? :hmmmm:

:elefant:

Ha ha ha! Good shit man!

 

[Poker_Mike]

A lifetime of experience throwing cards makes me confident I can hit anyone's hand. If necessary, the first card can be used to inflict damage to the fingers causing a reactionary recoil and an opening in which to fire the second "bullet" at the unprotected (card) hand.


I would consider this an angle, you loser. :deal: I am a playing card thrower, not an angle shooter.

Be nicer to Zorba....he finally found a way to NOT lose a hand.....LOL

I have another buddy story.....he does Zorba's trick just before he folds and points out to the dealer that his opponent has 4-cards and therefore it's a misdeal! Dealer always chuckles and pushes the pot to the opponent!

I feel like I gotta say it again.....PROTECT YOUR HAND....IT'S YOUR HAND...lol

Good luck !

 

[mrmb97]

Your accident because the bad dealer
Pro dealer never let that happend

 

[toteucelbun]

I hesitate to reply to this kind of question from a noob, but here goes:

Firstly: ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR HAND. This is solely your responsibility. This will prevent accidental mucking. It will not, however, prevent ANY MUCKED CARD FROM TOUCHING YOUR HAND.

Secondly: There is no such rule in Robert's Rules of Poker. The TD is making his own rules, or he is an idiot. If he is making up his own rules, he should have them in writing. At the very least he damn well better follow them in a logical fashion. If you are making up a "no muck card may touch a live hand or it (the live hand) is dead" rule, then you should understand the implications and consequences of such an action. What is the penalty for the mucker? What is the penalty for the person who didn't protect their cards? How the f*ck can you take the chips from a call from a mucked hand? etc, etc.

From RRoP:
Under "Irregularities":
2.You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.

Under "Dead Hands":
2.Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.
and:
3.Cards thrown into another player’s hand are dead, whether they are faceup or facedown.


I would point out the TD's obvious deficiencies in the performance of his "job" and make him read Robert's Rules of Poker, or make him write down his own rules. Next time you are playing in a tourney with him, get a careful read. Whenever he looks super strong, muck your cards directly at his hand. If you hit them, he's out. Dodgeball Poker! Or... he will make up a rule that you can't throw your mucks into someone else's hand. :idea:

Totally agree with everything you said. Poker players should always have their eyes open when they walk into a tournament and read the rules.

 

[ThinkIllcallUwitha5]

A lifetime of experience throwing cards makes me confident I can hit anyone's hand. If necessary, the first card can be used to inflict damage to the fingers causing a reactionary recoil and an opening in which to fire the second "bullet" at the unprotected (card) hand.


I would consider this an angle, you loser. :deal: I am a playing card thrower, not an angle shooter.

Ah, I finally understand what the commentators mean on TV when they say someone should "fire a second barrel", thanks mate.

 

[Zorba]

Be nicer to Zorba....he finally found a way to NOT lose a hand.....LOL

I have another buddy story.....he does Zorba's trick just before he folds and points out to the dealer that his opponent has 4-cards and therefore it's a misdeal! Dealer always chuckles and pushes the pot to the opponent!

I feel like I gotta say it again.....PROTECT YOUR HAND....IT'S YOUR HAND...lol

Good luck !

We must use all weapons in our arsenal, don't get to used to my lackadaisical approach to my play, it's part of my 24 month plan to lure newer members into a false sense of security, look out that 24 months is almost over.

:ciao:

 

[Poker_Mike]

We must use all weapons in our arsenal, don't get to used to my lackadaisical approach to my play, it's part of my 24 month plan to lure newer members into a false sense of security, look out that 24 months is almost over.
:ciao:

Yes.....more weapons in Poker-arsenal is a great thing!

The 24-months are up? Uh-oh!

Great luck to you !

 

[Rolco]

Um, yes it will? I hold my cards like this every hand. It would literally be impossible to kill my hand no matter how you throw the cards at it.

I cage it all four sides as seen.

Lol dude. "Dodgeball poker FTW" made me chuckle.

You are a beast.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

You are a beast.

Lol. Thanks.

 

[Ricardo007]

What a regrettable situation, this should not have happened should have stopped hand before

 

[Ikeman74]

Well,we all know that rules in Games are often there to avoid Players having Advantage over other Players or to keep the Game fair.We all rely on these Rules if we are in drawback.
In this case I would say that its sad but Things happen and that the Rules should stand.

 

[sidenotch]

IN PERSON is still better

In a small pub Holdem tournament run by a guy who is normally great at making decisions after unusual events, the following occurred:
With big Blinds on 2,000. I was dealing and had AK. Everyone folded round to me and I limped with 2,000. Small Blind shoved 4,000. Big blind folded and I snap called (from my 7,000 stack) declaring AK. When I went to turn my cards over, I saw there were 4 cards in front of me. What I hadn't noticed was that the BB's mucked cards had accidentally been thrown across the rather narrow table and ended up on top of mine. "All in" turned over JQ. Then a discussion started about "touching mucked cards" so my hand should be voided (even though behind the betting line). I knew I had AK and BB confirmed his cards (not a problem with only 4 cards to sort out), so I felt it was completely unjustified to have to give up the hand through no fault of my own, and to more than double up a person who was very likely to have been knocked out.
The tournament director said that unfortunately "those were the rules". I said under the circumstances this was a very unfair decision. Later he did concede that I should only have lost 2,000 as my cards were "dead" when I called the "All In".
In my view there were three options:
(1) The "rules are rules" situation decribed above.
(2) In the spirit of "fair play", and with no chance of the 4 cards being mixed up, the TD could have agreed to play out the heads up showdown.
(3) We could have voided the hand and taken chips back.

Any thoughts / comments would be appreciated.

Interesting scenario indeed! I "showed" my cards before when I mucked "pre flop" when I was in a "real money" game in Reno, Nevada. The table almost came UNGLUED! Gheez guys, was I trying to set someone else up with my "showing cards"?(3 8 off suited). Well after getting yelled at by about three people at the 10 person table, I finally told them I can play the way I like and that I had "accidently" thrown my cards down face up. That didn't seem to be enough of an apology. I ended up "forfeiting" my spot and getting my money back as I wasn't going to sit there and take a razzing over one hand!

 

[muky2]

Did the Pub at least buy all your beer and food for the night???