Question about a discrepency in a home game

[tyson33]

Hi i was playin in a home game the other night and it was me and 1 other player in the hand and we bet and bet untill the river ,we now have seen the river and iam countin my chips i say to the player "Iam going to put u all in do you call"(i asked this cuz if there was no way he was callin i woudlnt count my chips out ) he replys back with Yes so i flip over 2 pair and then he mucks his hand and says O good thing i didnt call ,and his argument was that i didnt say I put you all in ,i had said iam goin to put you all in do you call and he says Yes so should he be out ? he argued that he has to say Call in order for it to be legit ?

 

[tyson33]

any replies ?

 

[IrishDave]

I have a problem with you asking the question before you bet the hand. Since it wasn't his turn to bet or fold when he answered I'd say it wasn't binding. A verbal comittment when it's your turn is binding; however, a comment when it isn't your turn is just that - a comment. Think it's tacky but probably not "illegal"...

 

[tyson33]

ya but i said iam goin to put u all in do u you call ,So by me sayin that hes all in he said Yes so i still think iam right ?

but it was his turn to call cuz i said iam gonna put u all in so right there its his turn and i ask are you goin to call he says YEs soo i should win

 

[tenbob]

Ive seen this happen before. And its difficult to "proove" one way or the other what was said, was it a comment and an answer, or a question and an answer, if you get me. For future reference, and this is what i ALWAYS do, if your going to bet withir it be all in or whatever, place your chips in front of you and announce CLEARLY your intention.

Your "action" here is in no dispute, announce ALL IN, place all of your chips in front of you, no actual need for a count, and sort out exact amounts after showdown.

Hope this helps

 

[bigjace]

he's verbally agreed to call so it should stand(it would in my casino) but it was rather lazy of you to do it the way you did.personally i would've hit him with the table the cheating snake!!

 

[diabloblanco]

My sentiments exactly tenbob. If you're acting in a game, and wish to make a move, it should be obvious whether or not you have him covered.
You shouldn't have any concern about his call or muck until after you act and he is put in the situation where he must act. If I were him I would have replied that my reaction shouldn't influence your move (I know that wasn't the point of your asking him, but that's the way it sounded).

When you made your push and he didn't call, you basically suffered at your own hands. Poker players biggest tool is their ability to lie proficiently. His response to you was--in my book--unethical, but not "illegal". He shot an angle, but you opened yourself up for it.

 

[t1riel]

I'd bet if he won there wouldn't be an issue.

 

[robwhufc]

I suppose technically, if he's arguing you didn't bet and he didn't call, HE should win the hand because you turned your cards over before hand was concluded (i.e. mucked). Ethically you're in the right and this is obviously a lesson learned (and something for everyone else to look out for, so thanks for posting).

 

[DawgNutz]

Tyson33,

In my opinion:

When you exposed your cards before his chips were put into play, you invited him to
save his money. Yes, he said he intended to call you, but you'd not actually made your
play, i.e., put your money on the line.

If you'd moved your chips out, then any verbal comment by him would be binding.

The "muck" is the pile of discards. Muck (v) means to discard. Merely exposing
your hand is not, I don't believe, the same as discarding, if you keep them in front of
you. It's not the brightest idea, but I don't believe it's illegal.

The situation turned into a pissing match because neither of you strictly followed the
protocol of the game. I know, "it's just a home game," but this shows ta go ya what
can happen when you get lazy.

The rules are the rules, for good reason. They prevent misunderstandings and disputes
when they're followed. Nobody can bitch about what you do if you follow the book.

:deal:

 

[tyson33]

Thanks for all your guys is opinions and ill be changein my play up a little now ,i asked jennifer harman and the magician and they both said he owes me so w/e next time ill play that differently

I know he didnt say call but if i say iam gonna put you all in its the same thing as say iam all in i then paused for about 2 seconds and asked do you call he said Yes in a home game i say thats legit enough itas not the casino or WPT and u dont have to push your chips in when u go all in and why i turned my cards over right after he said yes cuz he agreed to the call .

 

[Four Dogs]

Nice move on his part. This is no different than stating your intent to go all-in before the cards are dealt. It's an angle for sure, but not strictly against the rules. Try to look at it from his point of view. Forget for a moment that this is a friendly game and imagine yourself playing in a casino against a bunch of strangers. When you asked if he would call your all-in, you put him in a difficult position. In his opinion, you still had the option of folding if he answered yes, or collecting the chips on the table with a possibly lesser hand if he answered no. This is a case of sloppy poker on your part, unintended as it may have been.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Hi i was playin in a home game the other night and it was me and 1 other player in the hand and we bet and bet untill the river ,we now have seen the river and iam countin my chips i say to the player "Iam going to put u all in do you call"(i asked this cuz if there was no way he was callin i woudlnt count my chips out ) he replys back with Yes so i flip over 2 pair and then he mucks his hand and says O good thing i didnt call ,and his argument was that i didnt say I put you all in ,i had said iam goin to put you all in do you call and he says Yes so should he be out ? he argued that he has to say Call in order for it to be legit ?

I believe the technical term for what happened here is "You made a booboo".