I got a warning in live poker

[Niykk]

They are not as strict elsewhere but the tournament director's right that you are not allowed to talk about the hand.
You can talk though about other things.

 

[Jillychemung]

Thanks for this explaining this to us.
Is there an information link for those rules.
So everybody can read those rules and learn more about them.

https://www.pokertda.com/poker-tda-rules/ is your resource

And I see that I was working off an old copy. The rule numbers are now

67: No Disclosure. One Player to a Hand
60: Count of Opponent’s Chip Stack
25: Cards and Chips Kept Visible, Countable, and Manageable. Discretionary Color-Ups

 

[veltins]

I didnt know this. But is tournament director correct?

So I was in middle of a tournament. There was a shortstack who had about 12bb. Chip leader in utg who has over 100bb raised to 2.5bb. Short stack in the button called. Flop was AT5. Big stack cbets out for 5bb. Short stack ponders for 5 minutes and then asks the chip leader "how many chips does he have?" In my head, im laughing bcz the chip leader has him covered, so it's easier to count his own stack than the chip leader's. I told the guy "he's got u covered." Dealer told me I'm not allowed to talk. But regardless, short stack ended up going all in and big stack called. Big stack had AT and short stack had A7 and got knocked out. Then tournament director came and gave me a warning saying "you cannot influence the players decisions, especially when you are not in the hand." I responded "the guy was wasting time and then asks stupid question like how much the chip leader has when its irrelevant because its not like he can win the entire chipleader's stack." Tournament director says "It may seem obvious to you but there are people who dont see it as obvious. Let them think for themselves and if they cant think for themselves, its their problem. You have a right to call the clock but you cannot influence someone to think of something."
I apologized to the chip leader but he was cool about it and said he found it funny short stack is wanting count of his stack.
Something new I learned. Does this apply to every poker room in casinos or just Vegas?

It has happened on my table twice, once in germany n another time in chez rep. When we are not in the hand , we are supposed to be quite. Actually the point they make is we can't talk to the players who are in the hands during the play
TD are usually very strict on that rule.

 

[MK_]

Yeah that's pretty common when you aren't in the hand👍

 

[fundiver199]

Now that video, I dont understand. He was involved in the hand, it was heads up. Jack gives him penalty for "influencing the decision". Talking is part of the game when its heads up and youre in the hand. When he says "I want you to call." That's just giving false information of the strength of his hand to the girl to make her think he's got a strong hand. It eventually worked.

That year the wsop had introduced a new rule, that people were not allowed to talk during a heads-up hand, when the action was on the opponent, if it could "influence action". I dont know, if that rule is still in place, but it was in 2016. I believe it was intended to avoid collusion, and in that case it was kind of ridiculous to use it to stop speech play, which is almost the opposite of collusion. But with that being said Will Kassouf completely ignored instructions from the floor, and even just for that he deserved a penalty

 

[MK_]

While I understand the desire of this tournament director to "make an example" I think, he picked a bad spot to do it. It should be obvious, that we are not allowed to say something during a hand, in which we are not participating, which can benefit or harm a player in the hand. For instance its definitely a big no-no to say something like "I would have made a flush", when there are 3 cards to a flush on the board, and someone is considering to call a bet from their opponent. As Mike Matusow did a few years ago in a cash game. And its also a big no-no to give advice to a player like for instance saying "this guy always has it, when he bet full pot", since it violate the "1 player per hand" principle.

But the problem here is the interpretation of, what can actually "influence action". I recently watched some of the 2016 WSOP main event footage, where there was a lot of controversy about Will Kassouf and his table talk. For instance there was a hand, where he was given an orbit penalty for talking, when the action was on his opponent Stacy Matuson. And clearly he was being a bit of an ass to her. But the issue is, that when you watch all the footage, both he and other players like Alec Keating were doing this all the time. So as one of the commentators even said "Wills table talk is ok, until they suddenly tell him, its not?"

And how does it "influence action", that Will say something like "I want you to call", "it will be embassaring to bust on camera" and so on and so forth? As Will say during the hand, the action is on her, and she just need to get on with it, whatever her opponent say. For me this is ridiculous and takes a lot of the fun out of live poker. Of course there is an etiquette issue here also, where its polite to not disturb someone, when they have a big decision to make. But turning it into a rule, where you basically are not allowed to talk, is ridiculous in my opinion. Then we might as well drop live poker all together and only play online.

I don't care what anyone says this guy was hilarious, he got under everyones skin so easily... then the hand signals😅 , he wasn't insulting her, he's allowed to talk if he's in the hand lol

 

[fundiver199]

I was in a $1-$3 session over the weekend and made a river bet. The other guy still in the hand starts thinking out loud and going over what hands I might have, when another guy jumps in and reminds him I was the pre-flop raiser. The dealer politely told him to not discuss a live hand. Had never experienced that before but I appreciated the dealer speaking up because I was bluffing and didn't need this other guy to have any help. He ultimately folded.

To me this is a much more clear example of a violation of the "one player per hand" rule, since he was clearly trying to help your opponent make a better decision. If it really helped the short stack in OPs hand to be informed, that the chip leader had him covered, is much more up for debate. But in fairness OP only got a warning and not a penalty, so I guess, everything is ok

 

[fundiver199]

I don't care what anyone says this guy was hilarious, he got under everyones skin so easily... then the hand signals😅

It was pretty hilarious to watch Kassouf, and this hand is one of the best. And yeah he clearly got under Stacys skin. The footage dont show the whole hand, so we dont know, what happened in the beginning. But if she called the floor over, she likely ended up distracting herself much more, than had she just tried to ignore his table talk

, he wasn't insulting her, he's allowed to talk if he's in the hand lol

That SHOULD be the rule, but it WAS not the rule during that tournament. In the beginning of the footage the dealer tell Kassouf "you can not say, how much is in the pot". Which to me is pretty ridiculous. I mean.... like why??? It was a heads-up pot, so who could it possibly hurt, that he tell his opponent, how much is in the pot? But that was the rule, they had made for that tournament for better or worse.

 

[teepack]

What would have been your reaction if he called you based on that type of comment though?

Pretty sure I'd have been upset if he had called because another player's chatter talked him into it.

I was playing at a local Pub Poker event years ago (before COVID) and I got short-stacked and went all-in. It folded around to the BB, and she showed her cards to the UTG player (who had already folded) and he told her to call. I didn't say anything at the time, and these are just friendly tournaments, but I couldn't believe the guy did that.

 

[teepack]

To me this is a much more clear example of a violation of the "one player per hand" rule, since he was clearly trying to help your opponent make a better decision. If it really helped the short stack in OPs hand to be informed, that the chip leader had him covered, is much more up for debate. But in fairness OP only got a warning and not a penalty, so I guess, everything is ok

Agreed. A guy asking for a chip count when he's clearly covered is a tad ridiculous. But a player not in a hand reliving the hand history while another guy is considering his move is clearly out of line.

 

[Luvepoker]

Pretty sure I'd have been upset if he had called because another player's chatter talked him into it.

I was playing at a local Pub Poker event years ago (before COVID) and I got short-stacked and went all-in. It folded around to the BB, and she showed her cards to the UTG player (who had already folded) and he told her to call. I didn't say anything at the time, and these are just friendly tournaments, but I couldn't believe the guy did that.

Pub games before Covid. OMG I miss those days. There were several around here before Covid but none have returned. I miss those days and game and even more the friends I had made. Hell, my home casino doesn't do tournaments anymore for the most part as well since covid.

Thats pretty sad he did that, but you were very classy to not make an issue about that players comment to the BB.

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Yep, I just play my cards and mind my own business. It's better that way.

 

[Gh0stL]

Hi, Maybe is obvious but is a heads up in this hand, maybe everyone should be play like they want, only respect another players. I think is much better.

 

[dimon4ik89]

You described a very interesting situation, now I will know what this can be. As far as I know, every poker club has general rules and there are internal rules of the club, which differ in all clubs. Probably the same applies to tournaments, somewhere there may be stricter rules and somewhere a little softer. In the clubs where I played, it is also prohibited to say words or expressions that could influence a player’s decisions. Poker is a gentleman's game, and every player should show respect for their opponents, although I don't know if this applies to your situation or not.