Could you lay down aces in this hypothetical situation?

joosebuck

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You made your way to the wsop from hard earned poker winnings, grinded out at the $1/2 table over the past year. You are there with a few other friends, all who satellite'd their ways in.

You sit down at your table and start to make conversation. The tourney director then announces "Shuffle up and deal".

You draw the big blind and look down at pocket aces. Not bad. Then UTG goes all in. And UTG+1. Then UTG+2. And everyone else goes all in infront of you.

What do you do? Can you really fold? Can you call?
 
Beriac

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I honestly believe I would call. Certainly you should from an EV perspective, but I believe with aces I would. I am just not going to fold aces pre-flop outside of the obscure bubble situations that we have discussed previously. Even against a full table of 10 people with random hole cards, aces are much better than 10% to win.
 
joosebuck

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i understand that but do you really want to possibly go to the rail that fast? with your friends still in it? 10k of your own money down the drain?
 
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Freakakanus

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I would call.....yes, you could fold and let them take each other out, but someone is going to win that hand and become a instant big stack with the ability to muscle you out of later pots. Calling would be your best shot to be the big stack yourself. Sure it's a long tourney with a long way to go but when are you going to get a chance to octupal <-(sp?) up in one shot?
 
Beriac

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With aces I think I could. I'd lay down pretty much anything else, but with aces I could honestly hold my head up high and say "I put my chips in with the best possible hand, and luck got me".

Honestly, if I didn't think I could play my A-game in the WSOP, I wouldn't go... I think part of making the money in those tourneys is playing the same TAG/whatever game you normally play.

I mean, it's a fair question, I'm not saying it's obvious or anything, but I honestly think I would call.
 
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Freakakanus

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i understand that but do you really want to possibly go to the rail that fast? with your friends still in it? 10k of your own money down the drain?

Better to go to the rail with AA preflop then getting burned with a small boat on the first hand like the dude from last year.
 
joosebuck

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was sammy farha that busted him. and the dude was some famous chicks brother, dont remember who...
 
JAMILE1

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Damn biggest poker decision you WILL ever make, with a unreal wide range of cards out there, I'd lean toward folding and making it through day one, as most pros say that is a vital part of playing in the WSOP, but that would be damn hard to do.

which brings up, has that ever happened in the WSOP:confused:
 
PokerPete

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If the tourney rules are "Only the winner of each table moves on." then you swallow hard and call..... at a ten player table you'll be down 9 to 1 if you fold....and that's a long, long steep climb to the #1 spot.

If you call, you have a chance that no one else will trip...or a chance that you'll trip...or hit 4 cards of one of the two suits you hold.

It a total and complete coin toss and you'll live or die by it...but if you fold, you pretty much have lost your chance to move on.

...and BTW just what kinda deck (other than a pinochle deck) has enough aces/paint for 9 "all-ins" in front of you??? Or do your friends "all-in" on 72os pocket cards???? :D
 
joosebuck

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well the first 5 could be like KK QQ JJ 10s spread out and then some lower PP calling for odds & maybe a 56s 89s etc~
 
PokerPete

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well the first 5 could be like KK QQ JJ 10s spread out and then some lower PP calling for odds & maybe a 56s 89s etc~

Sorry about that JB...it was a tounge in cheek comment about the pinochle deck :D
 
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SiMor29

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You'd have to assumer that 1 other player would have AA also, so your chances of improvement are pretty slim. That said, you could also fairly assume that two of others have KK, and also that two more have QQ. The only real unknown quantity is the guy who pushes UTG, and maybe the guy who pushes UTG+1, but even still, you'd have to think that a lot of these hands would be cancelling each other out and that you're a good shout to win. most likely the board would be low, as if anything most would be holding really high cards or high PPs.

Anything else is just absurd. ;)
 
Kenzie 96

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Yup, I would lay it down.
 
hott_estelle

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You made your way to the WSOP from hard earned poker winnings, grinded out at the $1/2 table over the past year. You are there with a few other friends, all who satellite'd their ways in.

You sit down at your table and start to make conversation. The tourney director then announces "Shuffle up and deal".

You draw the big blind and look down at pocket aces. Not bad. Then UTG goes all in. And UTG+1. Then UTG+2. And everyone else goes all in infront of you.

What do you do? Can you really fold? Can you call?

Well, considering 10K is a lot fo money for me, I would seriously have to consider the situation. But, I don't think I could bring myself to lay them down at the beginning of the tourney. Like someone said previously, the bubble situation may get me to, but not in the beginning of the tourney.

But certainly an interesting question.
 
Chiefer

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i'd call, no doubt in my mind. if i win, i'm way ahead of the rest. if i lose, i go get drunk and see some dancers.
 
Tammy

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Eight or nine players ahead of me all-in? Helllll no. I fold those Aces in a heartbeat. Sure, it would suck, but let's think about for a second...

Sure, AA is the best pre-flop hand, but with that many people in the pot before you, someone is sure to draw to a better hand. And your only two real outs are probably held by any of your other opponents. Let them take each other out, I'll stay and fight on to get deeper into the tournament. If the scenario Joose laid out is true, I've worked too long and too hard to let it go down like that.
 
blankoblanco

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If I'm a wealthy poker pro who's sure to play in every Main Event, every year, I call with the Aces. It's easily the +ev thing to do, in the long run. A ~25% chance to multiply your stack by 10 right away? After the first hand, you'd already have the average number of chips needed to REACH THE MONEY, and your chances of hitting millions would skyrocket tremendously, as you'd be able to pick up many uncontested pots from those who don't want to get involved with the big stack for at least the first 2 days.

However, if I'm just me, a not so wealthy guy, and I've worked extremely hard to earn the money to enter, really not knowing if I'll ever get another shot at it, I think I'd honestly fold. I worked really hard to have that experience of playing in the Main Event, and to immediately allow for a ~75% chance to be knocked out of the first hand isn't exactly giving me good odds to be able to experience it for longer than 5 minutes. You can't win the Main Event on the first hand, but you can lose it. No person who has ever made the money in a tournament has ever 10-tupled up on the first hand, so why do I have to? I'd pretend I looked down at a 2-7 and fold it.
 
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FinalTable

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I'm out.

Benefit of having the AA is being able to push people out of pots...maybe end up heads up to see the flop.

If everyone is already all-in...then everyone is already committed and everyone will see every card. At the end of the day, you have a pair. You'll beat any other pair. But with that many players in a pot, someone will end up w/ better than a pair and if it's not you - you are done and going home. If it's me, I'm happy to get out of the pot and hope that a couple of people split it and send a couple of home. You still are sitting there w/ your starting chips. Play real TAG after that, play your hands and hope you can double up a time or two to get back into the game.

I have a football mind, so this is my perspective. First play of the game, you are given a choice. Get a TD on this ONE play and you win...or you play all 4 quarters but you have to spot the other team 10. What would you do? All that practice, all those games, just to put it all on the line with one play to START the game? Play a 10 second play and go home...or play all 4 quarters and make a comeback and hope to win the game. I'm playing from behind and surviving from play to play and score to score.
 
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FinalTable

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Let me just add the situation has a lot to do with it.

If I'm in a regular tournament w/ a buy-in I can afford to lose in 5 minutes and not be upset, I'm all-in in a heartbeat.
 
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singate

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Fold for sure. At least 1 out of the other 9 is gonna catch up and like someone else said one, if not both of the other aces, is already in another player's hand.
 
roundcat

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I don't think it's a good idea to put all your chips in when there's not at least a decent chance you'll be favored to win (and/or a strong chance you'll win by bluffing, which doesn't come into play here), and even with AA, with that many people in the pot you're no longer a favorite. I'd fold, no question.
 
blankoblanco

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As I said in my post, I agree with those saying they'd fold, given the situation. However, I hope people are realizing that in the long-run, going all-in with AA here is very +EV, so if you were a pro who plays several tournaments, you should without question do it. Whether or not you're favored to win doesn't matter, by itself. If you somehow knew you were 48% to win a hand with 3 other people all-in, but you'd quadruple your average-sized chip stack, should you fold because you're not favored to win? Absolutely not. This is just a slightly different version of that scenario... although your chance to win is lesser (somewhere around 25%-30% depending on other holdings), you multiply your stack by TEN!

Again, I think folding here is totally understandable for a non-pro who greatly values the prospect of just making the money. But I'm getting the vibe by the responses, i.e. "someone is bound to catch up", or "I know I'm not favored to win", that some people don't realize that in the long run calling with AA here would be an incredibly profitable move, and every pro, barring short-term financial issues, would make this call 100% of the time.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Call instantly. I say instantly so I don't get tempted to think about it and make a play which I know is bad (folding).

i understand that but do you really want to possibly go to the rail that fast? with your friends still in it? 10k of your own money down the drain?

I'd suggest that if you're thinking of folding aces here you're playing so weakly and 'scared' that you're basically throwing 10k away by just entering and thus should not have entered in the first place.
 
joosebuck

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I'd suggest that if you're thinking of folding aces here you're playing so weakly and 'scared' that you're basically throwing 10k away by just entering and thus should not have entered in the first place.

such a typical response. it's so easy to be an elitist and say "if you arent willing to gamble with aa preflop you shouldnt be playing poker". way easier said than done, and in a situation where i've literally worked my ass of for a year straight, i dont know if i can "instantly" call for sure. regardless of if i know it's the right move or not. vs 9 random hands is AA even better than 30% to win?
 
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