C
ccmonrivah
Rock Star
Silver Level
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Roger1960
Legend
Silver Level
I can only speak for myself. When I first started I would get pushed off of every hand, not knowing that I was playing junk every hand and folding after the flop. Instead of tightening up my game, I started going all in. That way I couldn't get bet off of the hand. I then started playing better cards and still going all in.
Then I started learning to actually play, and I just shake my head at the all in all of the time guys. Read some posts here if you don't want to read a lot of books like I have done. Watch some videos on youtube, when I first started playing there were not that many.
Then I started learning to actually play, and I just shake my head at the all in all of the time guys. Read some posts here if you don't want to read a lot of books like I have done. Watch some videos on youtube, when I first started playing there were not that many.
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RocwX
Rock Star
Silver Level
There are a few situations where going all in preflop is your best move. If you're close to 10 BBs, for example, your stack is not big enough to outplay your opponents post flop, so you pick a good hand and shove. Another example is when you've got a really good hand, like AA, and 3-bet before the flop but someone 4-bets you, you should definitely make a 5-bet all in.
If you're not the person to shove, you might be thinking why should you call. Maybe the other player has a really low stack and is shoving any two decent cards and you have AKs or something like that. Maybe you think they actually have a good hand, but you have AA and should never fold.
The all in pre flop is a part of NL poker and if you wanna be a good player you should understand when it's your best move. If you decide to fold every single time someone else puts you in this position you're gonna be exploited.
If you're not the person to shove, you might be thinking why should you call. Maybe the other player has a really low stack and is shoving any two decent cards and you have AKs or something like that. Maybe you think they actually have a good hand, but you have AA and should never fold.
The all in pre flop is a part of NL poker and if you wanna be a good player you should understand when it's your best move. If you decide to fold every single time someone else puts you in this position you're gonna be exploited.
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duson
Rock Star
Silver Level
In freerolls the first 5-10 minutes are mostly all-ins because people don't want to grind them unless they feel they can make the money I'm guessing. If they win they've got a good stack to work with, if they lose then they move on to the next one.
But I do agree, I always try to see a flop before I go all in unless I'm really short (less than 20 BB's).
But I do agree, I always try to see a flop before I go all in unless I'm really short (less than 20 BB's).
finaltable1
Legend
Loyaler
1) to block conservative players like you. He goes all in with A3os, you have 55, and you fold... flop comes KQJ72, you could win, but you folded
2) to scare people who want to see the flop with drawing hands, like JQs
3) you have 2 cards, you haven't seen them... other players also have 2 cards and haven't seen them. the poker maths in this case for any player is 50/50, if you go all in blind and someone calls you blind, then it's still 50/50... when you see your cards - the dominating math system drops down and you can calculate odds/outs, but before that it's 50/50. some players believe that it's 50/50 after they see their cards and want to keep it 50/50 by going all in without seeing the flop.
2) to scare people who want to see the flop with drawing hands, like JQs
3) you have 2 cards, you haven't seen them... other players also have 2 cards and haven't seen them. the poker maths in this case for any player is 50/50, if you go all in blind and someone calls you blind, then it's still 50/50... when you see your cards - the dominating math system drops down and you can calculate odds/outs, but before that it's 50/50. some players believe that it's 50/50 after they see their cards and want to keep it 50/50 by going all in without seeing the flop.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
People are spot on here. The very thing you are complaining about "not being able to see the flop" is pretty much the exact reason that people sometimes go all in.
I'm not saying people playing freerolls are necessarily going all in correctly, but the basic reasoning is that they have an opportunity to win the blinds, antes, and any limps or raises that are out there, potentially without even seeing the flop, or showdown.
It is a very important skill to have when playing tournaments and getting into short stack situations, where your stack depth won't allow much postflop maneuverability.
I'm not saying people playing freerolls are necessarily going all in correctly, but the basic reasoning is that they have an opportunity to win the blinds, antes, and any limps or raises that are out there, potentially without even seeing the flop, or showdown.
It is a very important skill to have when playing tournaments and getting into short stack situations, where your stack depth won't allow much postflop maneuverability.
tauri103
Legend
Silver Level
Poker is a complex game and it is never 200% sure that a pot will be yours but there are hands that can not sleep. Instead of following important raises that reduce your stack, you must advance his chips and compel your opponent to take a risk.
old players are more likely to bet as and as, to increase their raises so to increase pressure. while recent players are much more aggressive and impose all-in.
But no player can win a tournament without putting himself in danger!
old players are more likely to bet as and as, to increase their raises so to increase pressure. while recent players are much more aggressive and impose all-in.
But no player can win a tournament without putting himself in danger!
wsbar
Legend
Silver Level
There are situations where the allin is necessary, logically I will not do this constantly with a crazy runaway. More playing a TJs with the intention of forming a straight or flush is necessary to see the flop, turn and river. Today I adopted a tight style, so the variance is smaller, but you have to be patient to expect good cards. Good luck at the tables.
Martin Carreira
Visionary
Silver Level
In the FREE tournaments especially there are many fish and players who play junk all the time. They are not interested in playing well, or developing a good game throughout the tournament. Just annoy They go all in from the beginning and if they manage to win their hands and connect the game, they are waiting for the blinds to advance and try to tie something later to get paid. regards
MikeCarasone
Legend
Platinum Level
It’s very annoying and often unsuccessfully overused by weak players. I truly don’t think it’s an effective strategy even if you have a good hand. I always see players shove 100 plus big blinds and collect the blinds and maybe a limp or min bet. Sometimes they show rags or show aces. Why chase all your opponents away when you have aces. I know they don’t always hold but they do hold more often then not. Build a pot if you can instead of shoving them. The players shoving relentlessly and every other hand never last and if they get lucky the first few shoves they always go to the well one too many times. Obviously you will not win every shove, especially when you have a crap hand. These players make the game unenjoyable and have no post flop skill or they would be playing with skill instead of bingo. Unfortunately we are now seeing more of this at higher stakes then just freerolls. I guess these players like wasting money or would rather gamble and get lucky to get some chips then play skillfully. There’s no skill in shoving all in and hoping you get there. Eventually they will get tired of losing and tighten up this strategy.
NWPatriot
Rock Star
Silver Level
I agree with everything you say here, nice work.
Putting pressure on opponents is necessary and all-in certainly does that. In a tournament, I really believe that all-in is a poor play. From a value perspective: a) you are likely risking everything for a minimal gain (blinds and antes only) if you are shoving pre-flop; b) in a tournament you need to win big pots to succeed; c) even with AA, all-in is not the best move (so if it isn't the best move with the best 2 card hand, why would it be the best play with any hand).
A note on the optimum amount of your stack to risk: I did some analysis and if you only have an 82% chance to win the hand (AA preflop for example), I believe that your optimum stack risk is about 64%. AA will only win at showdown 5 out of 6 times (as long as you aren't involved in multi-way pots, then you will win fewer). I propose that 5/6 is actually optimistic, as many of the 5 times that AA is best, you would probably not even see a showdown as your opponent would fold before then. Even if we ignore this and assume AA at showdown will win 5 out of 6 times, then a tournament all-in actually means tournament elimination 1 out of 6 times. This is bad news for your tournament. So how would you protect your stack? Of course your opponents are not going to let you do whatever you want to do, but if you are able to manage the pot (your risk) so that you are only committing 64% of your stack for the entire hand, this allows you to lose 1 in 6 times and provides the largest stack at the end of these 6 hands, all else being equal. Obviously as your equity improves your risk can improve. I am not saying to only play high value hands in this way, i am only saying that this is the optimum risk for an 82% hand.
MikeCarasone
Legend
Platinum Level
blueskies
Legend
Loyaler
If it's a fishy kind of freeroll with a lot of players, why not? You will need luck to go far anyway.
No point in grinding only to get taken out by some random fish who calls all in preflop with 73 and rivers that magic 3.
No point in grinding only to get taken out by some random fish who calls all in preflop with 73 and rivers that magic 3.
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rigor mortis
Rock Star
Silver Level
To be (allin}, or not to be (allin), that is the question. It could be that your stack is getting low and you've caught a hand. It could be that you're on the button with only the blinds left and you have them covered. Otherwise, if you have a top hand, why throw players out, make a bet and swell the pot
VMVarga
Rock Star
Silver Level
Like others have said, people do the frequent all in move for different reasons at different times. With freerolls, players do it because a) they know its free and don't care as much about getting knocked out early. b) they have a quality hand and want to double or triple up early. c) they are just overly aggressive players and are working with some combo of a, b, or both.
In other tournaments with actual buy ins, it gets more complex, and it depends on many factors. I would guess the most common reason why people go all in during these games is due to a short stack or very short stack. The all ins post flop are a bit different, as they are usually done as some kind of move to block or bluff, or just a hail marry that their opponent has a made hand that is worse than theirs.
In other tournaments with actual buy ins, it gets more complex, and it depends on many factors. I would guess the most common reason why people go all in during these games is due to a short stack or very short stack. The all ins post flop are a bit different, as they are usually done as some kind of move to block or bluff, or just a hail marry that their opponent has a made hand that is worse than theirs.
eberetta1
Legend
Loyaler
What hand do you wait for? And if you get it and somebody has already went all in, would you call?
I think one reason a person does an all in is to reduce the number of people that will be in the hand. It would get rid of the limpers, the min raisers, and those who do not know if their hand is strong enough against an all in.
I think one reason a person does an all in is to reduce the number of people that will be in the hand. It would get rid of the limpers, the min raisers, and those who do not know if their hand is strong enough against an all in.
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619Leafs
Legend
Bronze Level
A lot of players go all-in because they believe they can take the skill out of the game and beat the skilled players.
As well, especially novice players going all-in basically makes the decision to either shove or fold.
As well, especially novice players going all-in basically makes the decision to either shove or fold.