What is the best starting hand to beat aces

[riverboatrat]

is no hand favorite preflop to beat aces. you have almost the same chance to beat aceas with kk or with 74.but dont go in a hand when you see someone is very good and make big raises...just fold the hand dont try to beat him

You are partly right.
74 has the same statistical odds as KK against aces, however there are some hands that fair alot better against AA than KK

look at this

AA vs 74 suited = 81% vs 18.5%
AA vs KK = 81% vs 18.5%
AA vs 78s = 77.9% vs 21.7%
AA vs 78o = 80.5% vs 20.2%
AA vs 56s = 76% vs 22.8%
AA vs 45s = 78% vs 21.4%

so even 78 off has a better chance of beating aces than kings do.

lets look at this in a multiway perspective

AA vs 56o vs 10js vs kk vs 78s = 41% vs 11% vs 16% vs 15.4% vs 16.4%

this means that in a multiway pot, AA's value drops intensely, while still being the favourite followed by 78 suited then 10J suited then the kings.

Even 56 off suit is not even that of a dog to the kings.

Lets say 2 people have pocket aces in a multiway pot

so AA vs AA vs KK vs 78s vs 56s = 2.2% vs 2.2% vs 18.4 % vs 20% vs 19.5%

this makes the suited connectors the favourites

 

[gabstaeltoper]

78s OBV ! you can't loose with that hand

 

[Stu_Ungar]

There is no 'best hand' to crack aces.

There may be a very slight advantage to playing certain hands over others, but when aces come up, we are playing for stacks. To make this tiny edge pay off would take a lifetime.

There is, however, a 'best stack size'

Against aces it would be pointless to call an all-in at any stage.

However in deep stack play (usually this wont occur in a tournament) aces loose much of their edge. This is because players will have sufficient chips to play post flop without becoming pot committed.

In this scenario, aces become a weak made hand. This is because preflop, they are the nuts, but post flop they have little chance of improving. Take something like 65s or QJo, preflop they are weak hands and in typical tournament play it would often be very costly to see a the flop after a raise. However post flop, they have the power to improve to monsters. So in a deep stack situation, the relative size ofa bet is small compared to the size of the stack.

It therefore becomes very profitable to play marginal hands against AA because they are easy to get away from if the flop misses and will often win large pots when they do hit.

 

[odinscott]

Not so.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 82.217% 81.95% 00.27% 50515452 165366.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 17.783% 17.51% 00.27% 10796760 165366.00 { 22 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 81.771% 81.53% 00.24% 50255172 150876.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 18.229% 17.98% 00.24% 11086020 150876.00 { 33 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 81.329% 81.10% 00.22% 49994892 138420.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 18.671% 18.45% 00.22% 11371212 138420.00 { 44 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.889% 80.68% 00.21% 49734612 127476.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 19.111% 18.90% 00.21% 11653380 127476.00 { 55 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.458% 80.27% 00.18% 49483368 113022.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 19.542% 19.36% 00.18% 11933532 113022.00 { 66 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.481% 80.31% 00.17% 49506984 103734.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 19.519% 19.35% 00.17% 11928492 103734.00 { 77 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.462% 80.29% 00.17% 49495464 103500.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 19.538% 19.37% 00.17% 11940480 103500.00 { 88 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.876% 80.78% 00.18% 7077661 16081.50 { AA }
Hand 1: 19.124% 18.96% 00.18% 1661257 16081.50 { 99 }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.749% 80.56% 00.19% 49659624 116478.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 19.251% 19.06% 00.19% 11750364 116478.00 { TT }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 81.148% 80.94% 00.20% 49896864 125190.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 18.852% 18.65% 00.20% 11495700 125190.00 { JJ }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 81.547% 81.33% 00.22% 50134104 133902.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 18.453% 18.24% 00.22% 11241036 133902.00 { QQ }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 81.946% 81.71% 00.23% 50371344 142614.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 18.054% 17.82% 00.23% 10986372 142614.00 { KK }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.000% 02.17% 47.83% 223260 4913652.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 50.000% 02.17% 47.83% 223260 4913652.00 { AA }

It looks as though the middle Pocket Pairs, 66-88 have the best chance of sucking out against AA. The reason is obvious. Aces use T-K and 2-5 to make str8's which can counter suckout the higher and lower pocket pairs when they make sets. Ironically, in terms of winning. AA is the very worst hand to have against AA at just over 2%. Of course you have a 98% chance of not losing.

well obv the mids have that extra small advantage of the straight lol

close enough imo

 

[zachvac]

all pps have an equal chance obv

ok I realize it's close enough, but this isn't quite true. Two reasons:

1. straights: 66 is the best in this category because now you beat the AA straignt (2-3-4-5 on board) and can make a ton of straights. KK on the other hand can only make one straight without getting another A and even then only 2 while 2-3-4-5 gives AA a straight.

2. Counterfitting: 22 vs. AA, 8882x board. KK vs. AA, 888Kx board.

Maybe more, and I really don't feel like doing any specific calculations, just pointing out how all PPs do not have an equal chance of cracking aces.

 

[odinscott]

ok I realize it's close enough, but this isn't quite true. Two reasons:

1. straights: 66 is the best in this category because now you beat the AA straignt (2-3-4-5 on board) and can make a ton of straights. KK on the other hand can only make one straight without getting another A and even then only 2 while 2-3-4-5 gives AA a straight.

2. Counterfitting: 22 vs. AA, 8882x board. KK vs. AA, 888Kx board.

Maybe more, and I really don't feel like doing any specific calculations, just pointing out how all PPs do not have an equal chance of cracking aces.

indeed this is all true

but in these cases, 89, etc also are above the pps

i mean you are right, but when i posted that, i was just saying that there really isnt a best hand to beat aces - if i had to chose, then i guess any of the middle suited connectors

(maybe thats why i find myself playing them in position lately )

 

[A-RAG]

A preflop suited connected hand from KQ and down will have the best odds to crack aces. The other nite watching PAD Phil Gordon mentioned this when one of the other players had A/A. He stated he wish he had KQ suited as its the hand he sees crack aces more then any other.

 

[xxxgandhi666]

i say the small suited connecters like 65 78 9 10 j10 those are my favorite but u never know when ur up against aces but its always funny when u have busted it
but i dontlike be in with a pair even when it seems like only the trips then always fall how i get busted everytime with aces but dont like beingin with a 2 outer
but u will never know when there are aces

 

[Four Dogs]

well obv the mids have that extra small advantage of the straight lol

close enough imo

True, but all pocket pairs have a chance of staightening. I would understand TT having less of a chance to win than 66 because the Aces interfere with some of its str8 possibilities, but why so with 99? There should be no such conflict and the only reason I can see for the drop off is that the higher pairs use some of the same cards for making a str8 as AA. Since the aces already have the Nines beat, the only time this should ever influence the outcome is when the Nines improve but still get beat by improved aces
. By improved, we are talking str8's only since flushes would have an equal effect on any pocket pair.

 

[buckster436]

i would have to say 7 8,, ive cracked A`s with 7 8,, lots of outs,buck

 

[WVHillbilly]

True, but all pocket pairs have a chance of staightening. I would understand TT having less of a chance to win than 66 because the Aces interfere with some of its str8 possibilities, but why so with 99? There should be no such conflict and the only reason I can see for the drop off is that the higher pairs use some of the same cards for making a str8 as AA. Since the aces already have the Nines beat, the only time this should ever influence the outcome is when the Nines improve but still get beat by improved aces
. By improved, we are talking str8's only since flushes would have an equal effect on any pocket pair.

The reason the nines are less than the eights is that when the nines make a straight on a TJQKx board they still lose to the Aces.

 

[mjdavinci]

A set of Deuces 222

 

[baudib1]

KQ is not the best hand to beat AA, it's the hand most likely to pay off AA, imo.

When you have AA and get cold-called, a dry king-high flop (like K82 rainbow) is a very good flop for your hand, because when you hold AA, the most likely above-average starting hands out against you are Kx hands. Whereas when you have KK, there are many more Ax hands out against you.

However, since there are so many KQvAA flops, it is going to win 1 in 6 times or so, so you'll see it often (more often than a set beats an overpair) but the odds aren't good (if that makes sense).

 

[WVHillbilly]

It is a fact that the best starting hand to beat pocket Aces is 89suited. That has a better chance of winning than anything else.

No it is fact that 56s (where your suit is not shared by one of the Aces) has the best equity against AA. Pokerstove confirms this.

 

[natsgrampy]

In heads up play, the actual best hand to have vs. aces, or I should say, has the best odds vs.aces is J,10 suited, assuming not the same suit as either ace.
Against this hand, the aces have a 78.1% chance of winning. That means the J,10 has a 21.9% chance of winning.
The next closest is 9,9, assuming neither of them is the same suit as the aces. This hand has a 19.9% chance of winning.

 

[kmixer]

Ask this guy

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t1275)
SB (t1470)
Hero (BB) (t1230)
UTG (t1470)
UTG+1 (t1395)
MP1 (t1395)
MP2 (t2865)
MP3 (t1455)
CO (t1530)

Hero's M: 27.33

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, A

2 folds, MP1 bets t120, 2 folds, CO calls t120, 2 folds, Hero raises to t1230 (All-In), MP1 calls t1110, CO calls t1110

Flop: (t3705) Q

, K

, 7

(3 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 bets t165 (All-In), CO calls t165

Turn: (t4035) 9

(3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t4035) Q

(3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t4035

Results:
Hero had A

, A

(two pair, Aces and Queens).
MP1 had A

, 8

(flush, Ace high).
CO had J

, K

(two pair, Kings and Queens).
Outcome: MP1 won t4035

 

[WVHillbilly]

In heads up play, the actual best hand to have vs. aces, or I should say, has the best odds vs.aces is J,10 suited, assuming not the same suit as either ace.
Against this hand, the aces have a 78.1% chance of winning. That means the J,10 has a 21.9% chance of winning.
The next closest is 9,9, assuming neither of them is the same suit as the aces. This hand has a 19.9% chance of winning.

Really old thread bump just to post the wrong info.

JTs has 21.7% equity against AA without a shared suit.

56s has 23.05% equity against AA without a shared suit.