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Value Betting (Day 7 Course Discussion)

tagece

tagece

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The best advice in this video is to look at the hand as a whole. Not only to your own cards and the board, not only position, villain range, bet value, ICM or odds. You need to take all these factors in consideration in crucial hands. It's very tricky in fact. And probably what makes the difference between the expert player and the just good ones.

Anyways, I believe the common player can improve her skills a lot watching videos like these.

Awesome job! :congrats::congrats::congrats:
 
A

armadillo999

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Value bet the river really small and you might catch a bluff.
 
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karmakoumas

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to appreciate the amount of value you have to win with a hand is really frustrating.
i don't know why but i find myself more comfortable when playing with my feelings than to think too much on value.

thank you for this day course.
 
freddydr87

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Value betting is one off the most dificult desitions in poker(at lest for me),value betting flop and turn is not that hard because you strat value from draws and weacker pair, but when the river come OOP wath to do,value bet to strat from a weacker hand or checking for extrat value fom missdraws?
 
Collin Moshman

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Thanks Tagece!

Freddy, we're going to look at river decisions in a lot of detail later, I promise!

Redboy, yes late street value bets are crucial. When in doubt, go after turn and river value. You are definitely right there.
 
Phoenix Wright

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Thanks for the resource... currently reading through the pdf "Become a winning poker player in 30 days". It has a lot of great concepts and explanations. Didn't even realize that this existed.

I agree value betting is a game changer... and if you do it right your profitability increases over the long haul. Most people don't understand when/how to value bet properly. I highly suggest you read Day 7 in the PDF.

+1 Value Betting is crucial for a strong poker player. About a month ago, I found a flaw in my game and have been trying to work on it since: I used to value bet too few times. Perhaps I was just trying to trap like Chan did in Rounders (really good movie by the way), but I've since learned to appreciate value betting. This is an important topic for sure.
 
FF2586

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Hello hello!

Thanks for all those examples! This lesson is very basic! Some practice is needed!

gl gl gl
 
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billy_k

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How much chips you can get with value bets is a big turning point, isn't it.
I tend to bet a little because I'm not confident, but some opponents call me even if I bet with a lot of people.
 
Collin Moshman

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How much chips you can get with value bets is a big turning point, isn't it.
I tend to bet a little because I'm not confident, but some opponents call me even if I bet with a lot of people.


Yes it's a great way to accumulate chips and many players will give you action even if you're showing a lot of strength + their hand should be much too weak to call :)
 
carmenzu

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What I got out of this chapter is:How much money is my opponent willing to pay me for my hand, considering myself my hand as the best.


.
 
Collin Moshman

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What I got out of this chapter is:How much money is my opponent willing to pay me for my hand, considering myself my hand as the best.


.


Yes! That's a great question to ask when value betting. Win the most possible and you have a huge part of winning play right there.
 
Edu1

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why value bet is more common in position?
I think is more difficult to make a value bet out of position
per example in BB vs BTN - most of the time my strong hands will be defined in the turn
 
Katie Dozier

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why value bet is more common in position?
I think is more difficult to make a value bet out of position
per example in BB vs BTN - most of the time my strong hands will be defined in the turn
Yes, it's true that we have more information when we are value-betting in position.
 
BentleyBoy

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Another great session both in the book and the video. I particularly like the learning in the hand with KJo and a board of 88334. The chance is always that the opponent has an A, but when you state to consider how many other hand have you beat (not many) the idea of betting here is such a no brainier. The focus has to be on betting at the right time when the odds are with you, and you have assessed everything else including betting patterns, rather than not betting because you think you could be beat.

Thanks

BB
 
Popescu97

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In the 7 day of CC course the discussion it s about value betting.For me it s a good discussion and found some good information and I can apply this at the cash games at Unibet or PokerStars.The value betting for me it s a thought discussion and in poker the value betting it s very important ,because every hand you have you calculated the odds winning and put a correct bet on the table.Thanks for this course Cardschat ! :);)
 
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I love the way you lay down the concepts, great tutoring!
The last hand was ectremely well played by the villain, although if hero just checked the river he would lose tons of value. The way it progressed he made the most of it, making his flopped monster to look like a river bluff.
View attachment 269448
Actually, I think it was like Collin mentioned, hero's mistake, more so than villain's check-raise move, in calling villain's all-in bet that made villain a lot of profit.
 
Edison A

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Excellent explanation, better impossible, generally I apply the value bet on the river, the odds go very wrong when you have a player doing the same and he is only waiting for your bet to check, your hand has to be invincible, in any case you need a lot of concentration in the game
 
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Day 7 - best hand=value bet

I'm back to studying the course after a week break and this chapter is really great!

The main thing that has changed my mind is hand combinatorics. There are much more junky hands than hands beating us - this fact is cool. Almost everytime when I had a pair of queens, for example, and there was a King or Ace on the board I thought that my hand is worse. But in fact there are not many hands that beats us, especially if there was passive and neutral betting patterns, and we should try to bet.

Good job Collin and Katie! Thanks a lot!:)
 
A2ub3

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To put this into an expected value perspective, let’s say you are in a cash game and have a 100 big blind (bb) stack on the river, the pot is 16bb and your opponent checks. You may not be ahead 100% of the time and they aren’t going to call 100% of the time, but in order to determine how much value you can get out of a hand you should always ask yourself, “how often do I think I am ahead here and how often will they call?”. For lack of a better term, you can call this your “value equity”.

Let’s say you feel you are about 80% confident you have the best hand and that your opponent will never fold a better hand. Now they may also fold a worse hand some times, so for the sake of this example let’s say they fold 20% of the time. So, 60% of the time you are going to get called and win money.
 
Collin Moshman

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I'm back to studying the course after a week break and this chapter is really great!

The main thing that has changed my mind is hand combinatorics. There are much more junky hands than hands beating us - this fact is cool. Almost everytime when I had a pair of queens, for example, and there was a King or Ace on the board I thought that my hand is worse. But in fact there are not many hands that beats us, especially if there was passive and neutral betting patterns, and we should try to bet.

Good job Collin and Katie! Thanks a lot!:)


Awesome, thanks Showbizin!

I agree, that's a great concept for sure -- particularly when ranges are wide, like you're playing heads-up against a loose player, junky hand combos can out-number strong hand combos by a huge margin. It's a fun and useful way to look at a lot of spots.
 
acidburnfx

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If you have the best hand at the end of the betting round and you want your opponent to put more money in the pot then the concept has been applied well.
 
Katie Dozier

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If you have the best hand at the end of the betting round and you want your opponent to put more money in the pot then the concept has been applied well.


Very true, Acidburn! Thanks for making this well-spoken point :)
 
freddydr87

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Thanks Tagece!

Freddy, we're going to look at river decisions in a lot of detail later, I promise!

Redboy, yes late street value bets are crucial. When in doubt, go after turn and river value. You are definitely right there.
Thanks Colin allready saw the hole course very good and very well teached
 
redboy23

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Hello CCers,

I am happy to report that this course has really increased the frequency of my value bets. If you think you have the best hand - bet and if you are not sure - bet :). It is lots of fun getting the most out of a hand in this way.

One area that I admire players, is their ability to pull off that value bet on wet boards - with possible flushes and straights. As a default, I will usually call a reasonable river bet, attempting to bluff catch but hardly ever value bet in those situations.

This is an aspect of my game that I need to improve since I usually loose opportunities to maximize my winnings. Most players opt to check rather than bet or bluff on such wet boards.

It would be nice to pull of that river bet more often although I know I run the risk of a check raise or even a check shove in some cases. I was shocked once, when I called a check shove that was a major bluff. Not sure why someone would not just cut their losses when they miss their flush or straight on the river. I really hope to grow a nose for these spots!
 
Katie Dozier

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Hello CCers,

I am happy to report that this course has really increased the frequency of my value bets. If you think you have the best hand - bet and if you are not sure - bet :). It is lots of fun getting the most out of a hand in this way.

One area that I admire players, is their ability to pull off that value bet on wet boards - with possible flushes and straights. As a default, I will usually call a reasonable river bet, attempting to bluff catch but hardly ever value bet in those situations.

This is an aspect of my game that I need to improve since I usually loose opportunities to maximize my winnings. Most players opt to check rather than bet or bluff on such wet boards.

It would be nice to pull of that river bet more often although I know I run the risk of a check raise or even a check shove in some cases. I was shocked once, when I called a check shove that was a major bluff. Not sure why someone would not just cut their losses when they miss their flush or straight on the river. I really hope to grow a nose for these spots!
So glad to hear that you're value betting more, way to go! :)
 
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