Stalling to survive the bubble

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tomatientje

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Just before the bubble stalling seams to be normal, to me it is unclear what the results are.
Do you do it? When? Did it pay off?
 
kirkham69er

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It all depends for me what size stack i have but as a general i wont fold QQ KK or AA, regardless and i will always time out the clock when its getting cliose to the bubble if im low stacked to try creep into the money and hopefully double/triple/quad up when everyone goes loose afterwards..... however if i am quite stacked, i will be stealing those blinds at every opportunity, with a much wider range, knowing full well the range of hands other players short stacked or in general dependant on their earlier play, as most players will be happy to play is AA only!




Just before the bubble stalling seams to be normal, to me it is unclear what the results are.
Do you do it? When? Did it pay off?
 
Luvepoker

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When you are short stack I can see the value of stalling within reason. With one or 2 lest with 2 or 3 BB it makes sense. What I dont get it the people who have big stacks who stall on the bubble. With no reason to do it its illogical. Better still is the stalled who id in 1st position with less than 2 minutes till the next blind level who stalls as much as possible and ends up as the BB in the new blind level.

OK to answer your question, i really depends on the game and your stack size. If you are a lock to make it to the money your should not want to play this was and try to grow your stack. If you are really super short, it could make seance to stall and try to make the money. Does it work? it depends. I have seen 3 or 4 players go out on the bubble in one hand. I have seen 20 hands played on the stone cold bubble before someone went out. If the bubble last its a bad think to stall so much and blind down. If the game is a bit more wild it is a great idea.
 
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It is the natural play when short stacked.

It's all well and good to make blustery statements about only ever going for the win but more often than not you will run in a mediocre manner and in many cases need to settle for the min cash or a ladder or two. One of the best pieces of advice I ever heard from a pro was developing the discipline to cash regularly. His argument being you could not reply of your big cashes to carry you through lean spells.
 
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fundiver199

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Just before the bubble stalling seams to be normal, to me it is unclear what the results are.

Say there are 111 players left, 107 places pay, and 10 hands from now you will pick up AK, when someone else, who have you covered, pick up QQ. If your table play slowly, then maybe at this time its 106 players left, and you are already in the money. But if your table race ahead, its still 108 players left, and unless you get lucky and win the flip, you will be the bubble boy. Which one of these two outcomes would you prefer? Of course you could just fold AK, but that would lose you a lot of long term value. Basically this is why, people stall.
 
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Canwai

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I think it all depends on your stack. But it is obvious that it is always appropriate to play more cautious at this stage.
 
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suehtam05

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I don't really like doing it but sometimes i fell like i need to if i am really short stack i could get my buyin back just by stalling and my bankroll needs it as i only have 30 buyin in my bankroll
 
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619Leafs

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If I have a little over 13 to 17bb. Yeah I will stall because chanced are if you play a marginal hand your more likely to lose your stack than gain. Unless its high pocket pairs to shove I wait it out.
 
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fifille07

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I try not to. Unless I'm in a bad streak and making money would give me a little confidence back.
 
eberetta1

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Would you prefer to possibly lose money in a tournament that you have played in for over 2 hours or decide to take a bathroom break and come back to be in the money.
Even if you do not stall, others will be stalling, so it is just part of the game to recognize and use to your advantage if you see the opportunity presents itself.
 
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woodeng

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I believe that stalling the clock while waiting out the bubble is such poor sportsmanship -- to me it is just a twinge above actually cheating . . . If you don't have the skill to survive the bubble without using gimmickry than perhaps you do not belong in that tournament.
 
acemenow

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The clock is there to be used as you see fit. I have no problem with anyone using it in a strategic way.

The only problem I have with it, is when you are playing hand for hand and someone runs the clock down because they are not aware or do not understand that the strategy they are implementing is not working the way they think.
ex. all this does is lessen number of hands you can see before the next BB increase, in this example timing out the clock does not help you just the Big Stacks that can push you around more easily.
 
Mati532

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When you have a small stack, I can see the value of stalling within reason. With one or 2, lest with 2 or 3 BB makes sense. What I don't understand is people who have large amounts of money that get stuck in the bubble. For no reason to do so, it is illogical. Better still is the stagnant that is identified in 1st position with less than 2 minutes to the next blind level that stagnates as much as possible and ends up as BB at the new blind level.

Okay, to answer your question, it really depends on the game and your stack size. If you are a block to getting to the money, you shouldn't want to play this and try to grow your stack.If you are really very short, you could do a stalling session and try to make money. It works? depends. I've seen 3-4 players come out of the bubble in one hand. I have seen 20 hands played in the cold stone bubble before someone came out. If the bubble lasts, it is a bad idea to stand that long and blind. If the game is a bit wilder, that's a great idea.

Thank you, I like your point of view, it really is.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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When you are short stacked it makes sense to prolong and hope to make the money. When you are too short, you can't afford to see too many hands cause even the blinds take away too much and every hand you do play is do or die.

Do not understand big stacks that stall at the bubble. This is great time to be making other make a decision and steal the blinds and antes. You need to take advantage of this time to get some cheap chips and set yourself up for a deep run.
 
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Houdini9

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Stalling can be profitable if you absolutely need to break even on the day. I only play a couple of tourneys each day, so depending on the buy in, and how many rebuys, stalling nearly never gets me back to even, but occasionally it will and I might stall 50%, but I'm still shoving my AA, KK, and QQ.

GL GL,

HOUDINI9
 
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Mahdi

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I do, ot helps, just don't do it when hand to hand starts, there is no reason
 
SpanRmonka

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As someone earlier said, its your time to do as you see fit. Its 100% not anything like cheating, There is no point in keeping some imaginary honour and being bubble boy/girl!

It works especially well in very large tourneys when there are a lot of other tables. Not so well when its smaller and there are only 2/3 tables left around the bubble.

I do like to keep about 10 secs of timebank left for any tricky moments later on tho too!!
 
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It all depends on how many chips you have yourself, the normal case says that you should hold back until the bubble has burst and then you can play liberated
 
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fundiver199

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As someone earlier said, its your time to do as you see fit. Its 100% not anything like cheating, There is no point in keeping some imaginary honour and being bubble boy/girl!

Exactly. As previously discussed, stalling is actually against the TOS on ACR, so there you should probably not do it or at least not overdo it, so that it becomes obvious. But on other poker sites why not seek edge, whereever you can find it, as long as its within the rules.

I do like to keep about 10 secs of timebank left for any tricky moments later on tho too!!

In general there is no point in running your time bank, unless you are actually going to be all in. Another nice trick is to not bet all your chips but only say 95%. In that way, if someone push you all-in, you get another time allocation to run before calling off your last chips. This can sometimes make the difference, if its right on a big payjump with no hand for hand, or the tournament is just about to go into hand for hand play.
 
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fundiver199

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If you don't have the skill to survive the bubble without using gimmickry than perhaps you do not belong in that tournament.

Its not about skill, since there are certain situations, where you simply have to risk your chips. Like for instance if you open JJ with a 19BB stack, and someone with a 21BB stack moves all-in. Then you have to call, and if they have AK or AQ, you are going to be out of the tournament around 45% of the time.

Also a regular MTT play for 3 or sometimes even 4 hours before entering the bubble phase. And if you cant stand, that play is a little slow for maybe 10-15 minutes around the bubble, then maybe you are the one, who dont belong in that tournament. Maybe you should play something faster and more action filled instead like a turbo SnG.
 
Brentsn

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Just before the bubble stalling seams to be normal, to me it is unclear what the results are.
Do you do it? When? Did it pay off?
Everyone’s stack size is the driving factor on the bubble. If you’re at a table where you have a bunch of people afraid a small mistake will boot them you use your stack(if you have) to bully and take pots.
 
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woodeng

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Its not about skill, since there are certain situations, where you simply have to risk your chips. Like for instance if you open JJ with a 19BB stack, and someone with a 21BB stack moves all-in. Then you have to call, and if they have AK or AQ, you are going to be out of the tournament around 45% of the time.

Also a regular MTT play for 3 or sometimes even 4 hours before entering the bubble phase. And if you cant stand, that play is a little slow for maybe 10-15 minutes around the bubble, then maybe you are the one, who dont belong in that tournament. Maybe you should play something faster and more action filled instead like a turbo SnG.


No I am playing the correct game -- I am playing the speed of the game and not playing 'games' with the speed of the game . . . As for the skill of the game, a good deal of that is knowing the mathematics of your hands (exactly what you described) or as Kenny would say 'know when to hold them and know when to fold them' . . . or you can not know any of the above and just rely on luck and pray the clock runs out . . .
 
SpanRmonka

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Exactly. As previously discussed, stalling is actually against the TOS on ACR, so there you should probably not do it or at least not overdo it, so that it becomes obvious. But on other poker sites why not seek edge, whereever you can find it, as long as its within the rules.

Wow, I didn't know that. Very interesting info thanks. Totally agree, if the time is OK to use on other sites then use it. I hadn't even considered it could be against the terms. The fact that everyone has the same option means its totally fine. For me its just a matter of using your experience. Just as when I see someone doing it, and I have a decent stack, I'm gonna raise them mercilessly if I get the chance. Like a lot of things in poker, playing in a certain way can be good for you but also gives others an advantage, or some info about you, its about balance and the correct strategy at the time. Everyone at the table is always able to take advantage of theirs, or other players current situation.


In general there is no point in running your time bank, unless you are actually going to be all in. Another nice trick is to not bet all your chips but only say 95%. In that way, if someone push you all-in, you get another time allocation to run before calling off your last chips. This can sometimes make the difference, if its right on a big payjump with no hand for hand, or the tournament is just about to go into hand for hand play.

This is another great tip cheers!
 
MattRyder

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Seems to me 99% of players stall before the bubble. That may mean simply not taking ANY chances or deliberately running out the clock. It's pretty obvious when the numbers go down steadily for hours, then all of a sudden get stuck one away from the bubble for an hour. It's VERY, VERY common.
 
SpanRmonka

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I'm gonna have to look into how to do the quote posts better. I keep making my reply look like the original post!!! :eek:
 
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