Staking and backing

[ChuckTs]

Getting a staker/sponsor/backer is something I never really learned much about and want to know if anyone here has experience being either the staker or the stakee, and if they want to share the ins and outs.

From what I understand a stake is basically when someone backs a player and give him a buyin or multiple buyins into tourneys, and any money the player wins is split 50/50 between the staker and the player (right?).

What is stakeback, though, and how does it work?

Also, is backing/staking generally done differently with rings vs tourneys?

Any info would be appreciated; schatzdog recently PM'ed me after my 'last leg' blog post, and I've been thinking about getting a backer if possible if it's worth it for me. I honestly can't really see how it would for me right now; I'm not really a profitable player above the $15 level, I don't play a high volume of games or multitable, and getting %50 of a measly ~$50 for the occasional first place in a STT really doesn't appeal to me...

Anyways, any info, links or even personal experience would be very much appreciated.

 

[ArmadilloTrim]

Ill tell you what ive learned from years in actuall card rooms, not online. I dont know much about staking online.
You only accept a stake if loosing is on the staker. So, if you are given $500 to play with, if you win, you each take 50%, if you loose, you dont owe. Otherwise, its not a stake, its a LOAN. and a poker loan can be as bad as borrowing from the mafia. Staking is basicaly for full time players, that make their living playing, and are very confident in their ability to win.
You say your not too profitable at med/high levels, so at this point, a stake is not really productive. And anyway, usually someone will only be staked if they have lost their bankroll, and need a wealthy beneficiary that knows they are talented to get them started again.

Staking is high risk for the investor, so I dont see why someone would offer to stake someone that didnt have visible results to prove the odds of gaining profit vastly outweighed the potential loss.

Put it this way, would you take your hard earned money and put it behind someone you didnt know, or werent sure if they were very good players? no, youd want to put it behind someone like phil ivey, and thats because you KNOW that his chances of turning it around into big profit is good.

 

[ArmadilloTrim]

oh, and as for tournaments, sometimes there are multiple "stakers." Some people will buy a friend in, because he is the best player in the group. So, they sort out how much each gets according to how much each invested, and how much the "employee" the player, will get depending on his performance. Remember, basicaly when your staked, your being paid to play a good game a generate profit for your employer.

 

[ChuckTs]

Put it this way, would you take your hard earned money and put it behind someone you didnt know, or werent sure if they were very good players? no, youd want to put it behind someone like phil ivey, and thats because you KNOW that his chances of turning it around into big profit is good.

Schatzdog (a CC member) suggested I look for a backer as a possibility for a full income job. I honestly don't think I am ready at this point to play a high volume of games daily for a living, but just wanted to learn the ins and outs of backing before really considering it or looking for a backer. So basically it's 50/50 with any profits, and the backer absorbs any losses then. I also take it that the backer gets the actual stake back.

So to answer your question, if I had the extra funds and a player with a proven track record of solid ROI/winrate etc layed out his plan for me and approached it like a business plan rather than just coming up to me and asking me for money to play poker, then yes I would consider it. I definitely do see where you're coming from, though. I would never throw money to someone who I didn't have proof of them being a consistent player who I could trust.

Thanks for the input, AT.

 

[JimboJim]

A lot of stakers will throw a "HEEB" where they will stake a series of tournaments. The overall profit after all the tournaments are played will be split after the stakeback.

 

[Jack Daniels]

The % split is not written in stone, it's negotiable based on many factors. There are backers out there that cover entire costs and others that share costs. And it does vary some between ring and tourney. It also depends on how you know your backer. I've staked some people I know in both ring and tourney. The one rule you MUST follow is to put ALL details in writing. And a caveat needs to be included stating that no assumptions are valid, so if the details aren't written, it doesn't count. I've never staked strangers, but yes I have written agreements with friends too. When it comes to money, it isn't friendship, it's business. Also, any agreement should include terms of payment, etc. It doesn't have to be in all legal language and such, just simple wording for each side to protect themselves. It also helps to have a third party witness it. Anyway, just my experience.

Try doing some googling on poker staking contracts and such to see the wide variety of examples out there. Obviously you should understand all terms of any agreement you enter into.

 

[Welly]

Heebs are a bit different to a set of stakes. Heebs have much more flexibilty generally. It is like saying here's $500, go and bring me back $750, you keep the rest.

Heebing a roll from $500 to $1000 is one thing, but I dont like this system as tracking it is a nightmare and you will get skimmed by 99% of horses if you try to make it percentage based rather than flat rate.

A set of stakes is safer to track, and personally I ask for the loss to be limited to an extent.

There are sites that do staking on the internet but they are full of clowns and I wouldnt go near them as the chances of getting rolled on a big score are very very high in net-based staking.

50% + stakeback is pretty standard stuff, ie the first thing you pay back out of the winnings is the stake, then the rest is split 50/50.

What else do you need to know?

I dont know your level Chuck so I dont want to insult you, but if you want a small $110 stake (pre-agreed 20x$5.5 tourneys) I can front you. It would have to be at 50%+Stakeback, Strictly no Turbos, and you would have to agree to limit my loses to $50. For a higher stake I would be asking for you to limit my loses by a higher % than 50. (Mods, delete this paragraph if it results in FRW's begging or anything)

And that is pretty much how things work. It is generally chicken-feed staking accross the net, but when you know a man eye-ball to eye-ball then getting large backing is certainly possible.

Welly

 

[aliengenius]

The best discussion of staking I have seen is in "Professional Poker: the essential guide to playing for a living" by Mark Blade.

He covers it it detail, including discussion of the concept of "carryover", fair split percentages, scenarios that kill relationships between the player and backer, and even how to factor in such things as tipping after a tournament.