Some say over bet.. I say strategic.. thoughts?

mercyscercy

mercyscercy

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2020
Total posts
46
I obviously understand you always want to get the best value out of your hand as possible.. but with the amount of players that will chase to the river on a draw..for example I always bet big or huge when I flop a set and already have value in the pot from my pre-flop raise.. Now not always.. but when I see a straight or flush draw on the flop I'm 90% of time making someone either risk @ least half their stack if not more to see that turn.. and depending on that turn card I'm 98% shoving. opinions? thoughts? my first post btw.
 
P

ph_il

...
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
9,845
Awards
1
100% agree.

if you have a really strong hand on a board that an opponent can easily have a piece of, then you want to go for big value.

for example if i have 66 on a 6 - qh - kh flop, then i want to bet big because i'm getting called by so many flush/straight draws, 2 pairs, top pair, mid pair + ah hands, etc. betting big is to not only deny my opponent equity but it's also how i'm going to stack them by the river. you can't stack an opponent if you don't build a pot and you lose a ton value if you don't get maximize your return for your big hands.

now if the flop was something like 6 - 2 - j rainbow, then i might lean more towards checking post flop and letting my opponent see a turn. to give them a little more equity or potentially hit something they can play. if i bet here, i'm not getting called by a lot hands, so it's my interest to try and let them hit something so i can extract more value on a later street.
 
gon4iypes

gon4iypes

Visionary
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Total posts
776
Awards
2
I obviously understand you always want to get the best value out of your hand as possible.. but with the amount of players that will chase to the river on a draw..for example I always bet big or huge when I flop a set and already have value in the pot from my pre-flop raise.. Now not always.. but when I see a straight or flush draw on the flop I'm 90% of time making someone either risk @ least half their stack if not more to see that turn.. and depending on that turn card I'm 98% shoving. opinions? thoughts? my first post btw.
Welcome to the Club Mercy....sure are glad to have you! I too agree with you on bet sizing...gotta protect your hand against against letting weak draws stay in too cheaply and then they get lucky and outdraw you.
 
Uncloggie

Uncloggie

Visionary
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Total posts
819
Awards
1
Sounds about right, generally ...

On the other hand I like to vary my strategy and keep them guessing. Just as you are reading players, they are reading you, if they are any good.
Also a lot depends on stack sizes, blinds, position, etc.

It is not all cut and dry. There is so much to this game, which makes it so great!
 
3

300HPGOD

Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Total posts
1,177
Awards
10
Welcome to Cardschat and congrats on the first post and thread. As far as the topic of the thread goes I believe this is all dependent on the strength of opponents you are playing against. Good players will not pay you off if you are giving them the wrong odds to chase a draw. In betting the way you do (against good players) you still have the added benefit of protecting your hand but you will also lose value as well. You mention a lot of the times you do this is when you smash the flop. Betting like this will protect your hand but if I have two pair or better on the flop I usually dont want the opponent to fold their draw (this depends on stack size for me as the shorter I get the more I care about taking it down now). What I want to get extra chips to what I already have. I am not advocating betting small but I am advocating betting an amount where the opponent is paying more than what their odds are to hit the card on the next street. I want to be making a bet that will called but is in my favor.

Let me be clear that your strategy is fantastic against bad players who wont ever fold until the river every time they have a draw. Against these players you will be squeezing max value of them and it is a good play for. Just try to vary your sizing if you know your opponent has some skill. If you dont know anything about the player than you can do what they call a population read and just assign that player the strength of their game the same as other opponents in the game that you know how good or bad they are. Generally if you dont know the strength of your opponent you probably are better off betting the way you have described instead of going smaller but just keep in mind better players will fold when they are supposed to.
 
M

Mahdi

Rock Star
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Total posts
412
yea, you will miss so much value with such huge bets, and sometimes they will call you with a pair, sometimes they will do it with a draw, but what are you going to do when they hit right suit and you don`t know if you are behind now or nothing happened and you already invested so mush in the pot
 
GGthiagoXD

GGthiagoXD

Rock Star
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Total posts
125
I obviously understand you always want to get the best value out of your hand as possible.. but with the amount of players that will chase to the river on a draw..for example I always bet big or huge when I flop a set and already have value in the pot from my pre-flop raise.. Now not always.. but when I see a straight or flush draw on the flop I'm 90% of time making someone either risk @ least half their stack if not more to see that turn.. and depending on that turn card I'm 98% shoving. opinions? thoughts? my first post btw.
interesting this because just for the right reasons should there be an objective first before betting or investing chips in a tournament eg you are already in ITM? how many blinds do I have my opponents and many other aspects that our cerebral cortex produces in seconds to do a body action, but I have done many tests in cash game play money to analyze this also bet standard poker has evolved a lot of new players with new techniques but basically it is this for me !! success XD
 
R

ROYALROAD

Visionary
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Total posts
598
Awards
1
How about making it "draw is shit" and a proverb?

I think results rise fairly only with that.
 
mercyscercy

mercyscercy

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2020
Total posts
46
This is why the game is great

Appreciate the feedback and input on this thread.. and of course everything is situational on your chip stack..opponents chip stack..blind size..etc.. I'm all about value but there is nothing I hate more than to bet enough to get value and enough to keep my opponent in to get a call on the turn..then to do it again and that river hits their draw. Then my value bets were turned into my opponents value bets. That's why personally i'd rather get it all in before the turn\river..but like we all pretty much said it's situational.
 
Top