Sneak attacks in poker....how do we avoid them?

[Arjonius]

I dont think if anybody can fold his 2PAIR when he got AK and the flop came 3 A K , its just unreal to think that somebody can fold this hand even if the hero (AK) is shortstack or deepstack or no matter...

I don't know if anyone is good enough to get away consistently in this type of situation, but never?

 

[dj11]

One of the clear differences between Omaha and HE, for me, is that I can drop AA, KK in a heartbeat in Omaha without a 2nd thought, whereas in HE, it is a painful decision which probably approaches passing a kidney stone. I don't remember ever folding AA in HE, but fairly often in Omaha.

But I also realize that tourney life is more important than the quick fix. So I expect that at some time I will finally fold out AA in a critical hand and live to tell the tale. I do know, deep in my heart, that tourney's are often scored by the situations we avoid.

 

[Staneff]

Easy way to avoid traps is playing smallball. Keep the pot low. Dont be aggressive. Set the traps, dont let some1 other set them for you. It sounds easy but it`s not. You can't be 100% sure you control the hand.
2 pairs are risky so dont overestimate them. Dont play like you have the nuts unless you do.

 

[SwiftHax]

I dont think if anybody can fold his 2PAIR when he got AK and the flop came 3 A K , its just unreal to think that somebody can fold this hand even if the hero (AK) is shortstack or deepstack or no matter...

I'm assuming you were referring to my AK9 flop. Well, it's a tough fold, but my stack would dicatate it. If I'm shortstacked, I don't think I could fold it. People aren't going to set-mine against a shortstack that often. When short, I don't mind GII with top pair, let alone top two and I trust that a lot worse will call me.

Deeper the stacks go, tougher the folds become and this is likely one of them. People set mine with almost any PP, so expect to face a lot more sets.

Most of the time I think I'm against a set, it usually turns out to be one and I go "I knew it" all the time. Think about it this way, same situation and you fold your two-pair, save 50BB. Now you're the one holding the set and make him pay a 100BBs. Profit?

 

[rhombus]

very difficult to get away from.
If deep and playing against a Nit then easier to get away from
If against an aggro player and lots of draws available then very difficlt to fold r put them on set
Against massive aggro fish no way to get away from it as most of the time you will have them crushed

 

[MediaBLITZ]

But we must find a way how...lol....because I think this is what professional poker players are able to do...somehow, they know better.....

It is very very tough - but it does start with a mindset of valuing your hands.

Is top two pair worth your whole stack? Maybe sometimes, but not necessarily all the time.
Each time is an entirely different decision based on many factors. But if you decide it is worth your whole stack you need to be good with the consequences along with reviewing that hand to see if you missed something that should have or could have changed your decision. The more reviews you have under your belt the better you will get at your reads in that situation.

 

[transformpoker]

How about making the decision to NOT stack off with an average hand like two pair? Or, saying it another way, don't go looking to make a big pot with an average hand - exercise pot control.
If you want to make a big pot out of a big hand, and a small pot out of a small hand, does it not follow an average hand should be going for an average pot?

With an unpaired holding in NLHE, the odds of flopping 2 pair is about 2.02%.


The odds of flopping a set are about 10.5%.

The odds of both dependent events occurring in the same hand are less than 0.0202*0.105 = 0.002121, or 2 tenths of a percent. Once you count for card removal decreasing the likelihood of both hands being held on a board at the same time, then the situation is incredibly unlikely.

These numbers aren't meant to trivialize the decision to stack off with 2 pair. Stacking off anytime should be a respected decision, but also one given proper context. For instance, 8:spade:7:spade: on a 9:spade:8:heart:7:heart: board is much worse than Q:diamond:T:diamond: on a Q:heart:T:club:3:club: board. The former is much more likely to run into powerful and extremely dominating hands like 98s, 99, JT and 56s; whereas the latter, Q:diamond:T:diamond: on a Q:heart:T:club:3:club: board, is much more powerful because it beats out hands like KK, KJ, AQ and other weaker hands and draws that are often putting in more money when raised. All boards aren't the same. All two pairs aren't the same.

What is important is that 2 pair is a rarely made hand, and that's part of what makes it powerful. If you place a bet as often as most players need to continuation bet, then folding a hand that's in the top 10% of your possible holdings to a raise is usually a horrible choice. Let's say that you continuation bet a given board 60% of the time after raising pre-flop and getting a single caller.

Consider raising pre-flop 20% of the time, and continuation betting 60% of the time, but plan to fold 2 pair, then you're folding too often, and anyone can simply raise anytime you bet, forcing you to fold far too many hands.

If you know that you're against the rockiest of rocks, then by all means, make an extremely tight fold. But if your default strategy in NLHE is to fold such a strong hand as 2 pair, especially one boards where your opponents can be semi-bluffing or value betting worse hands, then you're going to be losing A LOT of money trying to avoid the unavoidable.

Try not to avoid stacking off with 2 pair, or fearing it, so much as you worry about creating a game plan around stacking off with 2 pair. Instead of cultivating thoughts like "oh man, I never bet here and now that he's raising my rare bet, he has to have it", try more for "yes! I've continuation bet against this guy and won the last 3 hands in a row, so now he's either value raising me with worse or bluffing to fight back. Two pair is an awesome hand to have here!".

Do you see the difference?

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Try not to avoid stacking off with 2 pair, or fearing it, so much as you worry about creating a game plan around stacking off with 2 pair. Instead of cultivating thoughts like "oh man, I never bet here and now that he's raising my rare bet, he has to have it", try more for "yes! I've continuation bet against this guy and won the last 3 hands in a row, so now he's either value raising me with worse or bluffing to fight back. Two pair is an awesome hand to have here!".

Do you see the difference?

Thanks to your post I can clarify my position here (it has been bugging me before this).
YES - top two pair is great - gotta love seeing it! HOWEVER (and I'm not entirely sure this was the case) to go shove wild with it and not even have considered a set (or any other hand that can beat you) is donk poker. If you consider the set and either completely reject the notion or figure that the odds are minimal then fire away. My main point meant to be - SLOW DOWN, USE YOUR BRAIN, AND THINK ABOUT WHAT IS BEFORE YOU (including historical context with preflop play, players, etc).

But great post there, transform.

 

[terryg642]

From my experience ,it seems the biggest pots are lost or won is win someone has a great hand ,but it's only second best.If you find someone likes to slow play there set you can always try to crack there set with As or nut straight,all depends on how they play the set.