Randomizing Looseness

[Dobbler1]

So today I'm playing at a 6max cash table with a guy with a 20% VPIP over nearly 200 hands. He raises my BB from the CO and we get to showdown and he has Q8off. I can't think of any range that makes those two pieces of data make sense, which leaves me to think that 1) it was a mis-click, or 2) maybe he was randomizing playing hands outside of a normally tight range? Do you do this or know anyone who does? Is there a third explanation I'm missing? If you do this, where did the idea come from? FWIW, I don't think it would be exploitative... I don't defend my blinds insanely wide.

 

[TeUnit]

Or maybe he opens his range in position and is very tight in early position.

Or maybe you were folding to steals and he wanted to exploit that.

 

[Dobbler1]

Or maybe he opens his range in position and is very tight in early position.

Or maybe you were folding to steals and he wanted to exploit that.

I have a healthy calling range from the BB, so if he was trying to exploit, he was doing it poorly and if he made such poor exploitative decisions, he would likely have a higher VPIP.

Even if early position is very tight, I don't see how you can get a 20VPIP on 6max opening with Q8off from the CO, unless he also overfolds his own BB and/or plays the button drastically too tight. So no, those options don't add up. He'd have to open wide from only the CO to get those numbers, and that (as far as I can see) is a crazy unsustainable strategy.

 

[Aballinamion]

I have a healthy calling range from the BB, so if he was trying to exploit, he was doing it poorly and if he made such poor exploitative decisions, he would likely have a higher VPIP.

Even if early position is very tight, I don't see how you can get a 20VPIP on 6max opening with Q8off from the CO, unless he is also overfolds his own BB. So no, those options don't add up.

There’s no problem opening J7o or Q8o or even weaker combos from CO when the blinds fold too much or we believe our image will make’ em fold.
The problem is about frequency: these hands still have a good playability postflop plus position, but we are opening those about 5-10% of times.
At the micros we are opening 3-6% of times if we are trouble makers: at low limits players call too much and most dangerous, they are unbelievers.
VPIP of 20 can mean a lot of things. What about his PFR, specially its PFR from CO?
Range charts and GTO spread sheets aren’t bibles by the way. We are not solvers neither machines applying a system, so things can get blurry when it comes to práxis.

 

[Dobbler1]

There’s no problem opening J7o or Q8o or even weaker combos from CO when the blinds fold too much or we believe our image will make’ em fold.
The problem is about frequency: these hands still have a good playability postflop plus position, but we are opening those about 5-10% of times.
At the micros we are opening 3-6% of times if we are trouble makers: at low limits players call too much and most dangerous, they are unbelievers.
VPIP of 20 can mean a lot of things. What about his PFR, specially its PFR from CO?
Range charts and GTO spread sheets aren’t bibles by the way. We are not solvers neither machines applying a system, so things can get blurry when it comes to práxis.

For the question at hand, VPIP is the only relevant factor. I'm not here to argue about what a good opening range is, but at a 6max table, 20VPIP is a tight range, 200 hands is a good sample size, and opening with a hand like Q8off from the cutoff is a loose opening. Those are facts. So I'm trying to reconcile those facts that seem at odds with each other.

 

[Sopt]

The reasoning would point towards a miss-click to be totally honest. 20VPIP is very tight for 6max and if you're saying that you have a healthy BB play he shouldn't really be playing like that. Miss-clicks do happen now and then, especially if you're playing multiple tables or maybe writing something and the table pops up. Did happen to me a few times.

 

[Dobbler1]

The reasoning would point towards a miss-click to be totally honest. 20VPIP is very tight for 6max and if you're saying that you have a healthy BB play he shouldn't really be playing like that. Miss-clicks do happen now and then, especially if you're playing multiple tables or maybe writing something and the table pops up. Did happen to me a few times.

Perfectly reasonable assumption, and I tend to agree. It just got me thinking about randomizing looseness, which in practice might be tricky, but in theory might make sense.

 

[nairolph87]

he saw a weak opponent in the bb and that was enough for him to steal. thats about it. its not even that loose 6max imo.

doubt this is really threadworthy, happens all day everyday that tight players open up and 200 hands is no sample.

 

[Poker_Mike]

So today I'm playing at a 6max cash table with a guy with a 20% VPIP over nearly 200 hands. He raises my BB from the CO and we get to showdown and he has Q8off. I can't think of any range that makes those two pieces of data make sense, which leaves me to think that 1) it was a mis-click, or 2) maybe he was randomizing playing hands outside of a normally tight range? Do you do this or know anyone who does? Is there a third explanation I'm missing? If you do this, where did the idea come from? FWIW, I don't think it would be exploitative... I don't defend my blinds insanely wide.

Don't overcomplicate it brother - he was trying to steal the blinds.

And - if you did call preflop then he had position

 

[Luvepoker]

I would not be surprised it was just a mis click. Not knowing the position, he was playing from It could have been a street from say the button. I would not get to worried or think much of it. 200 hand and a VIP of 20 i am betting on the mis click.

 

[Dobbler1]

he saw a weak opponent in the bb and that was enough for him to steal. thats about it. its not even that loose 6max imo.

doubt this is really threadworthy, happens all day everyday that tight players open up and 200 hands is no sample.

So it's not threadworthy, but it is worth replying to in a snarky and judgy way? If my thread doesn't interest you, move on. No need to add your condescending 2 cents.