Pocket AA.... Can you or should you let them go pre?

[kon44]

No offence but I just think you're a brick wall and there's no point in continuing.

It's rather obvious to anyone reading your posts that they're right.

The fact you consider there to be a right or wrong says it all. Your either a BillieBile fanboy or lacking IQ.... Smh... 🙈

 

[kon44]

What is special about that hand, where David Fishman folded AA, is, that he was not allowed to leave the game until after 150 hands. He had been staked 100k to play in the game by PokerStars and got to keep all winnings above those 100k. After winning a massive pot, where he rivered a straight, and Phil Helmuth called with two pair, Fishman was up more than 100k. He was also leading the contest among loose cannons to win an additional NAPT passport worth 50k.

At this point there were a few more orbits to play, and the issue for Fishman was, that if he entered any pots, then the pros would know, that he would be playing with "scared money". So Fishman wisely decided to fold every remaining hand preflop and lose a few rounds of blinds and antes rather than lose much more by getting involved pre and then getting pushed around.

However the situation for OP can not be compared to that of Fishman. OP was playing a completely normal cash game, and then he should have left, as soon as he realised, he was not willing to lose all that money, he won on the evening. Or never sat down in the first place. OP should not have waited, until he picked up AA and found himself in a situation, where he either had to fold them pre or get into a situation, where 1 out of 3 times he increase his stack 400%, but the other 2 out of 3 times he lose it all. Or whatever the exact numbers are for AA all-in pre against 4 other hands.

Leaving a cash game due to risk aversion is completely legit and can also be applied to online cash games. Maybe you have a reasonable bankroll for the standard buyin of 100BB, but you won some pots, and so has a good reg on your left, so now you are both sitting with +300BB. This is more than 5% of your bankroll, and you are also at a significant disadvantage, because you are out of position against him in most hands. Then the clever thing is to get up and leave, and either end the session or buy in for 100BB at a different table.

It was getting the AA’s and not being able to isolate a stack or reduce the number of hands I’d be up against that made me realise my time at the table was done. It was really clicky and there had been a few crazy hands in the 15 to 20min before hand. Someone had got up after stacking two people too so there was that added claw back tilt. Being more structured is what I hope to embrace through my interactions of this forum, a bankroll ive not bothered with since my freelance dealing days... Something I need to grasp and apply for online play rather than donating portions of my live winnings sporadically.

 

[kitchy65]

The fact you consider there to be a right or wrong says it all. Your either a BillieBile fanboy or lacking IQ.... Smh... 🙈

Once you get to know me...you'll discover I'm my own fanclub.

There is a clear right and wrong, nobody plays poker to muck AA preflop.

I wouldn't come at me from the position of having an IQ equal to room temperature.

I believe you were originally looking for confirmation bias, as you take issue with every person here who has the audacity to express an opinion.

Not good, Kong ....think of this forum as family (no probably not, you've anger issues)...

Think of this like an Amish community. Where everyone likes to get along , build houses etc.

In our case...FULL HOUSES lol.

 

[firerain]

I would only fold AA preflop in the following scenarios:
A. When I have a mid stack in satellite and large stack shove when you are close to winning a seat to large MTT.
B. Near Money bubble and min cash is a significant booster to your bankroll.

 

[kon44]

Once you get to know me...you'll discover I'm my own fanclub.

There is a clear right and wrong, nobody plays poker to muck AA preflop.

I wouldn't come at me from the position of having an IQ equal to room temperature.

I believe you were originally looking for confirmation bias, as you take issue with every person here who has the audacity to express an opinion.

Not good, Kong ....think of this forum as family (no probably not, you've anger issues)...

Think of this like an Amish community. Where everyone likes to get along , build houses etc.

In our case...FULL HOUSES lol.

Na, definitely not look for any bias or whatever lol.... I don’t need it. I take offence to any who come at me in a condescending/patronising manner. He who I now call BillieBile, knew what he was doing, I see it and call it out all the time, Read the post and I am blatantly trying to induce a conversation, not asking for advice like I feel I didn’t something wrong.... Its a long old reoccurring conversation that’s been had at many a venue. It’s the statistical dedicates that usually get all twisted from it and mostly either blow their top or take the former line of literation, by attempted belittling....

As for your analogy, that’s wonderful in ideological sense definitely ain’t like from the tone I’ve observed from a few mini cliques on here. Unbiased everything would be so bliss lol

 

[kon44]

Once you get to know me...you'll discover I'm my own fanclub.

There is a clear right and wrong, nobody plays poker to muck AA preflop.

I wouldn't come at me from the position of having an IQ equal to room temperature.

I believe you were originally looking for confirmation bias, as you take issue with every person here who has the audacity to express an opinion.

Not good, Kong ....think of this forum as family (no probably not, you've anger issues)...

Think of this like an Amish community. Where everyone likes to get along , build houses etc.

In our case...FULL HOUSES lol.

Oh and defo don’t have anger issues lol, I’m just explosively variable 😉

 

[jordanbillie]

Na, definitely not look for any bias or whatever lol.... I don’t need it. I take offence to any who come at me in a condescending/patronising manner. He who I now call BillieBile, knew what he was doing, I see it and call it out all the time, Read the post and I am blatantly trying to induce a conversation, not asking for advice like I feel I didn’t something wrong.... Its a long old reoccurring conversation that’s been had at many a venue. It’s the statistical dedicates that usually get all twisted from it and mostly either blow their top or take the former line of literation, by attempted belittling....

As for your analogy, that’s wonderful in ideological sense definitely ain’t like from the tone I’ve observed from a few mini cliques on here. Unbiased everything would be so bliss lol

You posted a thread with a question as the title in the learning poker section of the forum.

This forum is a community of players trying to make each other better players.

My intentions where to get you to inquire into the nature of your decision, and what impacted it. I never really told you you were wrong, more than questioning if you were in over your head (causing the conservative decision to fold). Getting good at poker is hard, because we have to constantly question what we are doing, and why. I think you have a long way to go in this process.

My only assumption I made was that you wanted to become a part of this community and a student of poker. This may not be true (as is evident by your losing 3K in roulette but not wanting to risk 2K preflop with Aces, or whatever a preflop jam would have been on that table).

The irony is that you are guilty of almost everything you claim others did to you. Name calling and nicknames, not my style. I think I just got myself caught up with a testy new member, and for that I laugh at myself.

I can't help them all, but I will still be here sharing what works for me if you ever care to listen.

 

[kitchy65]

I take offence to any who come at me in a condescending/patronising manner. I see it and call it out all the time

Think we've discovered the problem. Not everything YOU see is really there.

But at least you are laughing now and not insulting people.

Much more pleasant an experience isn't it? So..how was your day?

 

[kon44]

You posted a thread with a question as the title in the learning poker section of the forum.

This forum is a community of players trying to make each other better players.

My intentions where to get you to inquire into the nature of your decision, and what impacted it. I never really told you you were wrong, more than questioning if you were in over your head (causing the conservative decision to fold). Getting good at poker is hard, because we have to constantly question what we are doing, and why. I think you have a long way to go in this process.

My only assumption I made was that you wanted to become a part of this community and a student of poker. This may not be true (as is evident by your losing 3K in roulette but not wanting to risk 2K preflop with Aces, or whatever a preflop jam would have been on that table).

The irony is that you are guilty of almost everything you claim others did to you. Name calling and nicknames, not my style. I think I just got myself caught up with a testy new member, and for that I laugh at myself.

I can't help them all, but I will still be here sharing what works for me if you ever care to listen.

Erm, well I spent and spun 3k, still hole in pocket. You’ve back pedalled your tone which I appreciate so I’ll apologise for tongue lashing. You have however again tried to manipulate the tone for the viewer... testy new comer?... If you like I’ll take it.

 

[TeUnit]

If there is not a bubble situation, or a huge pay jump, then I dont think you should be folding AA pre. If you are afraid dont sit at the table, or if you are tired get up. Rather see you open shove super deep than fold AA pre. If you are going to fold AA pre, then you should ask yourself why you are still sitting at the table.

 

[kon44]

Think we've discovered the problem. Not everything YOU see is really there.

But at least you are laughing now and not insulting people.

Much more pleasant an experience isn't it? So..how was your day?

Haha, yer true that. My days been lazy, been technically foreman to my siblings in the house we just bought while I’ve sat playing poker all day. Commuting is horrible this time of year and the taxi to where I would like to be playing is unnecessary expense. Drinking Baileys and Whisky at the moment, going down a treat... You and your day?

 

[BentleyBoy]

This thread however I’ll stick to just AA, and to find out what others think and indeed any of you that have also just let them go because you have the disgruntled will to.

@kon44 interesting thread that you started, however I am left with the felling of it being such shame that you originally asked what people think about your decision on this particular occasion, yet do not respect the opinions offered.......whether good or bad. The intention of the thread lies within your head and I am sure you know that.

The thing to remember about poker, especially for one who is not as learned as some others, is that there are many styles of play, including accepted principles. While I am sure you have been successful in your approach to poker, described by you as crazy, it is significant that you also state you have no understanding or care for some of the principles (is how I read what you say). Imagine how more successful you could be if you took the time to understand or appreciate some of the principles and considered the meaning behind the views that you have sought yet repeatedly seek to minimise.

Keep playing your way, but I have to agree, that if you take a sum of money to a table that you do not want to lose, then you are playing at the wrong stakes ( regardless of how successful you say you could have been on that table, you still chose to fold a premium hand and walk away). That may have been the best decision you could have made at that stage so well done.

Good luck with your future playing poker.

Damo

 

[kon44]

@kon44 interesting thread that you started, however I am left with the felling of it being such shame that you originally asked what people think about your decision on this particular occasion, yet do not respect the opinions offered.......whether good or bad. The intention of the thread lies within your head and I am sure you know that.

The thing to remember about poker, especially for one who is not as learned as some others, is that there are many styles of play, including accepted principles. While I am sure you have been successful in your approach to poker, described by you as crazy, it is significant that you also state you have no understanding or care for some of the principles (is how I read what you say). Imagine how more successful you could be if you took the time to understand or appreciate some of the principles and considered the meaning behind the views that you have sought yet repeatedly seek to minimise.

Keep playing your way, but I have to agree, that if you take a sum of money to a table that you do not want to lose, then you are playing at the wrong stakes ( regardless of how successful you say you could have been on that table, you still chose to fold a premium hand and walk away). That may have been the best decision you could have made at that stage so well done.

Good luck with your future playing poker.

Damo

There is a massive distinction between asking what others think about folding AA pre flop and asking if I should have (which I didn’t) .... Conversational topic. And it seriously baffles me, how so many of you don’t understand what I wrote. Or understand the conditions regarding the situation.... It’s hard not to sound rude responding to half you guys 🤷‍♂️

And thank you, same to you.

 

[BentleyBoy]

There is a massive distinction between asking what others think about folding AA pre flop and asking if I should have (which I didn’t) .... Conversational topic. And it seriously baffles me, how so many of you don’t understand what I wrote. Or understand the conditions regarding the situation.... It’s hard not to sound rude responding to half you guys 🤷‍♂️

And thank you, same to you.

If you can’t respond without being rude....don’t respond.

 

[kon44]

@kon44 interesting thread that you started, however I am left with the felling of it being such shame that you originally asked what people think about your decision on this particular occasion, yet do not respect the opinions offered.......whether good or bad. The intention of the thread lies within your head and I am sure you know that.

The thing to remember about poker, especially for one who is not as learned as some others, is that there are many styles of play, including accepted principles. While I am sure you have been successful in your approach to poker, described by you as crazy, it is significant that you also state you have no understanding or care for some of the principles (is how I read what you say). Imagine how more successful you could be if you took the time to understand or appreciate some of the principles and considered the meaning behind the views that you have sought yet repeatedly seek to minimise.

Keep playing your way, but I have to agree, that if you take a sum of money to a table that you do not want to lose, then you are playing at the wrong stakes ( regardless of how successful you say you could have been on that table, you still chose to fold a premium hand and walk away). That may have been the best decision you could have made at that stage so well done.

Good luck with your future playing poker.

Damo

I mucked premium hands recently at a casino I hadn’t been to in some years recently too. Sat at a table of 1/2 with £200, 3.75hrs later I’m a little short of £1200 and card room manage comes over and announces last 10min.... I was horrified lol.. For one, I had no idea the place even closed. Secondly, turned the table into that bingo rush to claw back losses. Best starting hands I’d had in over an hour, AQo and then AKo. Could have bagged an extra 6-800 from the action I passed up in those closing 2 of 3 hands. I’d probably have folded AA there if I was challenged with 3 or more all in before again. Me folding and showing caused a commotion in itself lol, had this AA pre convo then too.

Your right about the other fundamentals of the game, I’m here to round my game so I can grind online in a more productive manner. I’m erratic as you could believe at times, always seems to serve me well at the live tables, I more structured approach I’m in need for online.

 

[jordanbillie]

Erm, well I spent and spun 3k, still hole in pocket. You’ve back pedalled your tone which I appreciate so I’ll apologise for tongue lashing. You have however again tried to manipulate the tone for the viewer... testy new comer?... If you like I’ll take it.

Apology accepted regarding the tounge lashing. I just want you to know that we are all simply trying to improve as poker players here.

That's it.

 

[kitchy65]

Haha, yer true that. My days been lazy, been technically foreman to my siblings in the house we just bought while I’ve sat playing poker all day. Commuting is horrible this time of year and the taxi to where I would like to be playing is unnecessary expense. Drinking Baileys and Whisky at the moment, going down a treat... You and your day?

Well, I was rather enjoying it...doing quite well on the poker too, until I see you ranting at members like a mad Greek.

I thought to myself, someone has to get the Earl of Lemongrab to calm the f ..down....why not me?

It's just a forum mate, there's no intellectual standards but there are community standards. You can't just be slavering at everyone whose reply to you you don't like.

Moving on...I'm having a whiskey atm. Glenfiddich

You heard or tried this? People say they can taste butterscotch but I taste a more oaky flavour.

 

[kon44]

thought to myself, someone has to get the Earl of Lemongrab to calm the f ..down....why not me?

My sister is in stitches and insisting we go back to Wilko for some "Lord Of The Manor" mug or something lol. Your not wrong though, shouldn’t be getting agro over an insignificant moment. You was successful but I’m prone to let it fly alas lol. I’ll have to try it, I’m not too much of a drinker and more a tester as I have a very intricate palette. Was a mixologist for many years when I couldn’t play or work poker like I once did. Drinking Baileys again lol, my sister is such a wino it’s troubling lol. Not lived in the same vicinity in over 30 years,

My sister is linsisting your mildly poking fun at me with a play in words, Leningrad?? Or something, I ain’t got the foggiest lo.... All good even if you are lol, tipsy plus some at 2,30 on a Tuesday afternoon and she’s working ffs haha..

 

[kitchy65]

No...your sister was right but not about that.

Lemongrab is an antagonist in a kids cartoon. High-strung, overly-zealous, stubborn ruler of the land of Lemongrab.
Always shouting at people "this is unacceptable"

Glenfidditch is very nice btw but it gets you drunk quite easily. I only have a small glass now and then.

 

[Luka22guro]

I believe that AAs almost never fold preflop. But after the flop, it is not so rare that AA needs to be folded.

 

[Dmitriy_rus7]

I almost never fold AA 🤪

 

[kon44]

If there is not a bubble situation, or a huge pay jump, then I dont think you should be folding AA pre. If you are afraid dont sit at the table, or if you are tired get up. Rather see you open shove super deep than fold AA pre. If you are going to fold AA pre, then you should ask yourself why you are still sitting at the table.

True that, it was to be a 5 way pot... I tanked for a while and wasn’t happy about it. There was no was I could push a couple of them out pre, bingo tilt against many improvable hands a nightmare with P.Rockets.

 

[jordanbillie]

True that, it was to be a 5 way pot... I tanked for a while and wasn’t happy about it. There was no was I could push a couple of them out pre, bingo tilt against many improvable hands a nightmare with P.Rockets.

This gives you a good visual with arbitrary random hands vs your Aces. By what you described, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other 4 that were allin had worse holdings.

The moral of the story, you are close to 50% vs 4 other opponents with aces preflop. Average equity would be 20% in this spot and as you can see every single opponent is under 20% and you are way over 20%.

Try not to be results oriented and simply see that this is a dream situation and should never be turned down.

This is pretty much like having a friend who will give you 2 to 1 odds on flipping a fair coin. Take it all day!

 

[fundiver199]

The moral of the story, you are close to 50% vs 4 other opponents with aces preflop. Average equity would be 20% in this spot and as you can see every single opponent is under 20% and you are way over 20%.

And you have even chosen a scenario, where all opponents have free cards, and two of them suited, connected hands with a high chance of making a straight or flush. With so many all-ins preflop, usually at least one player will have an A in his hand, and/or they will block each others outs. If I give the 4 opponents a range of 88+, AQ+, AJs, KQs and run a Monte Carlo simulation in Equilab, the result is 51% equity to AA on average. And if they are really in there with "any two cards", as OP say, then AA will have 56% equity on average.

 

[houcineben10]

U can fold them very easily in a bubble of a satellite, cause there is no pay jump just the tickets so u don't need to risk your tournament for chips (First option).
2nd option pre flop u can never ever fold Aces that is a crime even if all the players at the table shoves u should call even if you are near the bubble.
Cause in expected value it's always the most profitable action to do