Playing KJ or QJ in early position ?

[ferten]

In cash game I don't know but i can say, KJ KG is good hand but early position isn't good, some great players play with the position more that with his hand.


In tournament I think that depend from your stack if you have a big stack i say rise, if you have a short stack i say "all in" or "fold", but call for my isn't good idea.
good bye

 

[seventhcereal]

KJs is a fine hand to play EP to mix things up every now and then. Situational. But I tell you, when you hit one of those KJ flops you can win a decent sized pot. Not to mention you got all those gutshots to the nut straight and a king high flush... Great for stacking fish.

 

[RickAversion]

KJs is a fine hand to play EP to mix things up every now and then. Situational. But I tell you, when you hit one of those KJ flops you can win a decent sized pot. Not to mention you got all those gutshots to the nut straight and a king high flush... Great for stacking fish.

You mean KJ is a good way for a fish to stack a pro. The reason fish are so hard to play against is that you have NO IDEA what they have. They might not raise PF even with AA. And they might have nut flush after calling a 15bb PF raise with 74s

 

[joe777]

Not my favourite hand EP.Folding would be be my choice in this scenario.

 

[Mase31683]

If you're talking live FR small stakes (probably only $200nl honestly) then I like the play. It's going to be table dependent but there are plenty of guys playing K9,KT,Kxs, so you can actually dominate them on the kicker when you pair your king.

If you're playing online, I hate the play, too often you're going to be punished with a raise behind and be forced to dump, also players in general aren't going to overlimp with such trash as stated above.

If you're playing $2/$5 live, it becomes iffy, I'd lean towards a fold unless you had a very good table, so it's case by case. Once you're at $1knl live, play like you're playing online and just dump those early.

 

[RickAversion]

What do you guys play when in EP ?

 

[badalhoco345]

Avoid play those hands in early position. Usually you will take no benefits with that.

 

[pkr_man14]

Just avoid playing those hands in the early positions, they will bring you more trouble than joys. And also, it is not adviceable to limp a hand, because you are showing weakness in your starting hand, and thus you won't have the iniciative on the flop to make a cbet. I usually play those hands on late positions. Good luck at the tables

 

[mihaitsa83]

KJ if not suited is a tricky hand, better to fold it in early position and if someone raised before, QJ suited or not you can play, always raise in preflop with that hand, and as a advice if you want to have a bigger % of winning you have to raise if you are first because you will have less opponents, for example AA against one opponent wins in 84% of cases but against 8 in 30%

 

[Bee]

The last ten days of non-stop getting KJ. And of course, falling steadily. Now when I get KJ immediately fold. More on them not to go. There is a picture from FTOPS FULL TILT MAIN EVENT

 

[BullWink]

On a real tight table, I might limp in with KJ or QJ, especially if suited. Although you will not win very often, and must fold this hand often, if you do hit, it can be very profitable. If you can remain cheaply until the showdown, it makes the other players at the table think you are weak so that when you do get a good hand from early position, the other players won't suspect it as much.

 

[wowasenotrusov]

I would not play such marginal hands, not only in early but even in late position. a lot of hands that you simply will move and you lose a lot of money.

 

[danigames1984]

Well generaly i make a 3 BB bet with this hand, only if i'm in bb sb dealer or prior to dealer, on other position's i fold or just call, under the gun fold always.

 

[mango5Tnl]

KJ or QJ in early position, are they suited? I would limp and hope the flop will improve my hand. If not, I fold.

However, if I flop a drawing hand, and the pot is right, I may chase, if price not too expensive and I have a healthy stack.

Depends on so many factors. Poker is very complicated and questions can not be answered in a yes or no.

But, that's me,

mike

I'm with you Mike. I always limp in early position with QJ and KJ. if no one raises, you get to see the flop for cheap. If someone raises, you should just fold because they probably have you dominated. If you don't flop top pair just check and fold to a bet, and then you only lose your limp. If you flop top pair then you can raise to see where you're at.

 

[Weisssound]

This happened a few times. Very early position, maybe even blinds. Passive table, so I just limp for $2. Maybe I get to see the flop for $2, if a raise, I will just fold since so out of position.

Flop = A X X
V generally bets like $10
Hero folds.

Is this standard play?

Open limping is never standard play. KJ or QJ, I will open UTG, but maybe only 20% of the time. And I'm doing that just so I have a wider range. It's a pacing thing, if I've sat out a lot of hands I'm opening just so I'm not ONLY on premiums.

If the flop is AXX, I'm c-betting pretty often. Because I'm also betting my paired aces in this spot as well. So unless my caller is the type of person who's never in there with less than AT+ I see no reason not to bet.

 

[Weisssound]

I'm with you Mike. I always limp in early position with QJ and KJ. if no one raises, you get to see the flop for cheap. If someone raises, you should just fold because they probably have you dominated. If you don't flop top pair just check and fold to a bet, and then you only lose your limp. If you flop top pair then you can raise to see where you're at.

You will probably find yourself in a lot of multi-way pots either winning a small take the 1/3 times you hit top pair, or losing a larger pot when someone else hits bottom 2-pair or backdoors a monster.

As a general rule of thumb: don't open limp.

 

[braveboat]

In a full ring cash game, I'm not opening with JQ or KJ very often, suited or not.

These hands play best in multi-player pots, in position. Good for making straights, they are easily dominated which gets one in a load of trouble out of position.

Suited, I would be opening about 10% of these hands from middle position to balance my range. Other than that, I'm usually mucking these small broadways...

 

[vernon1001]

I do sometimes open in early position with these hands. However if I get raised or re-raised it's an easy fold. Unless I have a short stack I don't mind taking a shot with these hands.

 

[Thinker_145]

I play KJs and QJs in all positions but off suit I only play these hands in the BTN and I'll defend my BB against the SB. I might also limp behind several limpers in the CO.

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[ilostmysoul]

I only open QJo on the button and sometimes in the CO and don't defend my BB with it except vs the SB.

KJo is a better hand but I still don't open it in early position.

These 2 are reasonable hands to limp behind in any position. Never call a raise OOP and calling IP is only a good idea against fish who can stack off without much of a hand and nits who are easy to bluff.

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Curious about this line. Why only against the SB? I know you are talking about blind vs blind, but if someone is folding into the CO or BU, they are still going to raise, and in my opinion you're as better off holding KJ or QJ against them than you are against SB (granted, you will probably be on a 3-handed pot, but this is what I think. Besides, your steal equity would not go down very much, since both SB and BU/CO would have wide ranges here, and if you flop a good hand... then better. Having two people in the pot with you also increases your implied and pot odds, which is good for JQs since you'll be getting some draws with it fairly often. But I don't know, in a 3-way pot, I can't stand my ground very much guess it kinda depends in their range quite a lot).

Anyways, answering the thread's question, JQs and KJo are a fold from Early Position. Basically, entering in a pot EP by calling without intending to trap (say, you have a very strong holding and you want to get a loose-aggressive opponent to open, but this is a very risky and tricky play) is an awful play. You should always raise from Early Position, and have a hand strong enough to do so, since you will be playing OOP in what will most likely be a multi-way pot.
One of the reasons for this is, like it was mentioned above, that you have no clue whether someone behind you will raise, and you will most likely be forced into a fold face 1 or more raises. You are also getting into a pot with a speculative hand OOP and with no initiative (meaning: you will rarely catch a good flop, and when you don't catch it, you won't be able to steal the pot away).
Not only that, but you also don't know how many callers you will get. KJo is a hand that is overrated and hits pretty rarely (and almost never hits strongly enough). With KJ your point should be to get into a pot In Position via a raise (so you keep initiative) against 1 or 2 opponents capable of letting their hand go, so you can sometimes steal to balance the times you hit. With QJs you at least want some callers to call with you pre-flop, even if you don't want to raise with it. So, even if you miss and aren't able to steal, with more callers you have greater odds to pay that off the times you do make a great hand post-flop.

 

[Weisssound]

Just to add on to this, open limping is basically holding up a sign that says "steal this pot". If you open limp, that's usually a cue to me to put in a 4xBB raise + 1BB per limper, if I'm in position. Ax hands, suited connectors, pocket pairs. Doesn't really matter. Because I know that you and everyone else who limped along isn't holding anything that great.

 

[Thinker_145]

Curious about this line. Why only against the SB? I know you are talking about blind vs blind, but if someone is folding into the CO or BU, they are still going to raise, and in my opinion you're as better off holding KJ or QJ against them than you are against SB (granted, you will probably be on a 3-handed pot, but this is what I think. Besides, your steal equity would not go down very much, since both SB and BU/CO would have wide ranges here, and if you flop a good hand... then better. Having two people in the pot with you also increases your implied and pot odds, which is good for JQs since you'll be getting some draws with it fairly often. But I don't know, in a 3-way pot, I can't stand my ground very much guess it kinda depends in their range quite a lot).

Anyways, answering the thread's question, JQs and KJo are a fold from Early Position. Basically, entering in a pot EP by calling without intending to trap (say, you have a very strong holding and you want to get a loose-aggressive opponent to open, but this is a very risky and tricky play) is an awful play. You should always raise from Early Position, and have a hand strong enough to do so, since you will be playing OOP in what will most likely be a multi-way pot.
One of the reasons for this is, like it was mentioned above, that you have no clue whether someone behind you will raise, and you will most likely be forced into a fold face 1 or more raises. You are also getting into a pot with a speculative hand OOP and with no initiative (meaning: you will rarely catch a good flop, and when you don't catch it, you won't be able to steal the pot away).
Not only that, but you also don't know how many callers you will get. KJo is a hand that is overrated and hits pretty rarely (and almost never hits strongly enough). With KJ your point should be to get into a pot In Position via a raise (so you keep initiative) against 1 or 2 opponents capable of letting their hand go, so you can sometimes steal to balance the times you hit. With QJs you at least want some callers to call with you pre-flop, even if you don't want to raise with it. So, even if you miss and aren't able to steal, with more callers you have greater odds to pay that off the times you do make a great hand post-flop.

Because quite simply its easier to make the SB fold because we are in position. We could also just call as we are in position so there are several ways to deal with a heavy SB stealer. I might consider playing these hands against very aggressive BTN stealers and I might also fold these hands against very tight SB stealers.

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[Alexsandr Kononov]

KQ, KJ, QJ: These cards are misleading for beginners who see two pictures and rush to join the game . These cards are quite playable , but only in certain cases. In early position on the table a strong throw everything on low table can raise / limp and limp KQs / reset KQo ( 50 % of cases) . In middle position KQ raise in 60 % of cases and limped the rest , KJ start playing from the third position , and QJ - the fourth raise or limp 50 %. The closer to the last position , the higher the percentage of raises from the last position raise to take the blinds .

 

[Xmaster]

I don't like playing these cards in EP and if you play them at a very tight table to mix up the game, then I would not only limp here. Limping looks always weak or is good player also limping with AA,KK in EP? I don't think so..(of course there are exceptions, for example if you know that there is great chance to get a raise behind you)