Playing hands to the flop vs. playing to the river

calhoun tubbs

calhoun tubbs

Guest
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Total posts
2
I have an almost impossible time playing hands to the river -- all my hands are won or lost by the turn unless a player moves all in.

Besides calculating pot odds, are there any general strategies to play past this handicap? I'm pretty sure most hand recommendations and starting-hand statistics are based on playing cards to the river, so playing to 3 has to put me at a disadvantage. The result of this type of play so far is that while I make it into the money and earn my entry fee[+] quite a bit on MTTs, I can't seem to pass the barrier into the nice payouts that make playing worth the opportunity cost. Any suggestions?

By the way, I really enjoy the forum and I'm sure you'll never see more poker players giving their honest opinions anywhere else. Thanks for your input.:)
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Can you elabourate a bit more on this.. im not sure what you mean by all your hands are won/lost by the turn.

A few examples mightbe of help m8
 
S93

S93

Legend
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Total posts
6,154
Nice first post and welcome to CC.
Like Stu said if u could give us litle better example on what the problem is,maby posting a hand history that you feel explains this a litle better im sure you will get some postive replys and addvice.
 
vanquish

vanquish

Legend
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Total posts
12,000
he means he never goes to showdown.
that's fine in tournament play. it does not put you at a disadvantage (your opponents don't get to see the river either fwiw)
 
metalpaulie

metalpaulie

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Total posts
5
whats up man. i think i understand your problem. if your hand is lost after 3 cards something is wrong please dont take offense to this but it almost sounds like your pulling on a staight draw or flush draw or just trying to be too strong with a pair or calling too much remember this good players will call some times too often and lose a bunch(trust me i still do it sometimes lol) but greats know when to fold even A A it sucks its not easy but some times its just got to be done. maybe this will help too, after the flop calculate your outs and muliply that number by 4 that number say it was 40 is the percent you have to make these outs,its a pretty good esimate to try and help you through. good luck man i hope this helps.
 
vanquish

vanquish

Legend
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Total posts
12,000
whats up man. i think i understand your problem. if your hand is lost after 3 cards something is wrong please dont take offense to this but it almost sounds like your pulling on a staight draw or flush draw or just trying to be too strong with a pair or calling too much remember this good players will call some times too often and lose a bunch(trust me i still do it sometimes lol) but greats know when to fold even A A it sucks its not easy but some times its just got to be done. maybe this will help too, after the flop calculate your outs and muliply that number by 4 that number say it was 40 is the percent you have to make these outs,its a pretty good esimate to try and help you through. good luck man i hope this helps.

wat
 
calhoun tubbs

calhoun tubbs

Guest
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Total posts
2
Thanks for the responses. It sounds like you have a solid understanding of my predicament -- 3 low cards drop, I have AK or something, and unless I'm at 4 to the flush or an open-ended straight draw (which is impossible with AK) I am gone.

The hands that do make it to the showdown are often those which hit nothing on the flop but pick up decent pairs on the turn or river. I would think someone's Q9 should be folded after a bet when the flop is 2-3-7 with no flush draw, but I see similar instances in which players win nice pots against middle pocket pairs.

My poker knowledge is limited to the basic mathematical principles and a few general pointers from Kenny Rogers. How is it in my example that a player would hang in with that flop after a raised pot? I can see how it's a pure luck loose call or a severely underbetted(?) hand from the guy with pocket pairs, but is there something else going on here conceptually I'm missing?

Thanks again.
 
vanquish

vanquish

Legend
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Total posts
12,000
read theory of poker by david sklansky
 
metalpaulie

metalpaulie

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Total posts
5
if lol in that instance that they have a 7 with a low or even a pocket lower and u have q 9 with that flop then your not playing wrong brother lmao dude ive come across this so much its pitifull its alot harder to beat a rookie than someone who knows what thier doing BELIEVE ME lol alot of my close friends play and not all of them know how to play get my drift lol but if u let a small or middle pocket come in with a decent bet try studying the player to c how good he is and make your judgement from there

good luck boss


pjm
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top