OVERRATING AK

Michael Paler

Michael Paler

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to win in a MTT you need to generate chips as early as possible and use every fair chance to double up.
Holding AK you are only in big trouble vs KK or AA. And any pocket pair + bad flop for you, Ie; a 27 that pairs one, smaller st8's, shall I go on?
As you are holding 2 of the key cards preflop the odds are 3/50 * 2/49 *2 for running against kings or aces (0,48 % in heads up and about 4,5 % at a full table)
Having QQ the odds are 8/50 * 3/49 =(0,96 % in heads up or about 9 % at a full table)
Therfor you should fold QQ in a 3 to 5 bet more often than w/ AK. This is just soooooo wrong I don't know where to start!
Not hitting on the flop it is difficult to play AK therefor I would like to make it a near all in preflop. And this is flat out insane.

Absent a flop, maybe....

Look, all hands are equal pre flop, if you get my drift. AA or KK is not the only thing you are in big trouble with. Almost any two cards your opp holds can pair on the board and knock you out. You hope he has AQ or KQ and pairs his K, but come on - he could just as easily pair the Q or the duck with the suited 7 he has to beat you. I see folks shoving every time they get AK and it's a sad thing, because going all in every time you get it will only work until the last time. In an MTT, this means goodbye.

The posted odds are best case scenarios. They don't take many other factors into consideration. You raise w AK in any position. You learn what to do when you do not get a good flop. What you don't do is shove it willy-nilly every time you get it. And you certainly do not raise more with it than your other holdings as everyone will know what you have. They will also know what you do not have. Get it?

On the positive side, your first sentence makes good sense.
 
Frontiere

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I agree with most of answers , but for me AK is easly overrated after flop . With QQ JJ or smaler pair you will not overrate them wit 2 over card on flop, but with AK some players overrate Ak they betting and call nomatter they miss the flop.
 
jayrock334

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every poker hand is over rated it all depends on position chip size and players
 
dsiavelis

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With this I do not agree, who told you ? Good players always do cbet around 30% of the pot if dry board, only bad players can shove. Regulars will not play postflop with AK when short stack, they always shove when stack less 14bb... If our stack around 20bb, we can raise only 2bb, and in we missed flop, you can do only small cbet and fold if villain raise you....


What is a cbet?
 
solargarlic

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AK can be a fickle bitch but sometimes when people get it their eyes glaze over and they can't fold. The positive thing about this is they will pay you off sometimes and stack you others it's just variance. I try not to let it bother me when it works out badly for me and try to enjoy it that much more when it blows up in their face. Good Luck!
 
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finnhawc

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I never have a problem playing Anna K if I can isolate and I have superior position. I can get into lots of trouble when I over commit with them. I do like to limp with them when my position is poor which can make it tricky when I miss.
When is calling with them the biggest mistake? Assuming you raised and were reraised pre-flop.
 
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post1ngher

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Becareful, so many people have this idea of AK being a PREMIUM HAND and it really is, but u gotta be realistic and assume that AK is slightly behind ducks
 
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baudib1

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AK is the premium hand you will be dealt most often in a tournament. You need to learn how to play it.
 
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danigames1984

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Have feeling that lots of players overrating AK in tournament games ,specialy in preflop. If flop isnt good ( example - 3 7 J ) they still push with AK. I find it easy to fold here , but play with lots of players who cant fold AK nomatter what flop is.I play AK preflop all in only if Im shortctacked or have more then double chips of oponents.In the end of the day , pocket pair could kill AK easy.

Just like you i make this choices when playing. So it seems to me a good strategy to play. Note that if the flop is dry, your chaces are not very good to win the hand. ;)
 
Frontiere

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AK is the premium hand you will be dealt most often in a tournament. You need to learn how to play it.
Yap , thats I say , lots of players overrate AK for sure. It cant be problem to foldem when you know you cant win.
 
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DeepStack bMAC

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In a tourney you have to exploit +EV situations. Stack size is huge here. If i have 12bb or less I'm open shoving. If will almost always 3b AK, and depending on reads, am more than happy to stake my tourney life on it if my stack is 25bb or less. Early stage is a bit different but unless you are deep against another deep stack all in, you should be willing to get it in.
First, there are a lot of hands you can rep when you are the aggressor. If you are only playing when you hit then you are certainly a losing player. On a J73 flop, when you 3b pre, is a player with 99 calling your flop shove for 15bb? Doubtful because QQ-AA is a large portion of your range. Plus you still have ~25% equity in addition to your fold equity.
Also to the comment on 22 being equal to QQ when against ak, that's incorrect. First 22 can be counterfeited, second, QQ has two blockers to Broadway str8.
 
yeezus

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Big slick is really tedious when it comes to missing the flop. But hands do not really matter its all about position table image board texture what the other guy thinks you have and then what 2 cards you have. I have been there all in like 2nd hand of a tourney with AK i have won and lost and sometimes i fold early to an all in even when i lnow im probably holding the best hand pre flop , but a lot of things can change when that flop comes. But when it comes to missing flops people tend to over react with AK when the villain reraises them and then they shove out of frustration because they have a premium and feel like its been stolen from them.
 
jh1spartanfan

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AK is a very strong starting hand; however, no starting hands are immune to a bad flop and you have to be able to adjust accordingly. Just because you miss the flop doesn't mean you should be looking to fold though. Having the best hand isn't the only way to win a hand in poker. Now I'm not saying shoving or even re-raising a bet necessarily, but a solid cbet against the right opponent could definitely win you the hand.
 
limpnfold88

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Have feeling that lots of players overrating AK in tournament games ,specialy in preflop. If flop isnt good ( example - 3 7 J ) they still push with AK. I find it easy to fold here , but play with lots of players who cant fold AK nomatter what flop is.I play AK preflop all in only if Im shortctacked or have more then double chips of oponents.In the end of the day , pocket pair could kill AK easy.

I agree. It's just a drawing hand. It's just ace high.
 
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bbiase

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You must have a real good read on your opponent in order to not double barrel AK heads up or shove on the flop when short stacked.
 
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pokervike

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Same goes with David Sklansky. This was an interesting exchange with Mike Matusow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T6hVh5p83k

If I have to pick sides on YES/NO I'm IN. Two hands only two really worry you post flop all-in.

I do consider a calling players range without 3betting before I make any more moves with the big slick! As far as worrying about pocket 5's or other small pocket pairs..... I don't worry about pocket 5's with any hand I play preflop. I know I need to hit with AK vs. a pair. I also know my ACE is way ahead of villains ACE ad who doesn't love to see that K on the turn!?!
 
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pokervike

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For all of the other hand ranges people 'call' with from MP I wonder why it is always so much of a conversation about playing AK aggressively? Or how about the idiot who's always calling a shove with KJo vs. even stacks of 15bb on the bubble in a SNG??? WAIT! Keep letting that guy do that never mind.... My point is sometimes it IS time to hit the gas. When the big slick shows up in his TA I'm riding shotgun.
 
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I also think, that the strength of AK is often overestimated, if we miss the flop. But the hand is still not bad. But I wouldn't instantly fold, if I miss the board. This depends on the exact board and the opponent of course..A C-Bet will often do the job
 
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z4person

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whem players start to play, beguiners they think ak is always a good had to go all in...
somethimes u need to let it go
 
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ph_il

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AK suited or unsuited is a very strong hand preflop and you should be raising/3betting preflop with this hand as often as you can. Like most big hands, you want to limit the number of players that see a flop against you, so raising to isolate is what you're looking for. Against almost all players, playing AK aggressively is much better than playing it passively.

Hitting and missing flops with AK:

AK is going to pair on the flop about 1/3 of the time, always giving you TP/TK which is often times the best hand at show down. Even if an A or K hits on a dry board, you should still c-bet as the aggressor because your opponents will call you with much worse on really standard c-bet looking flops. For example 88 might call a c-bet on an A 2 7 flop.

AK is going to miss the flop 2/3 of the time, but they still have equity to win the hand. In the J 3 7 flop example, even though AK missed, being the aggressor and c-betting can easily pick up the pot. And if the opponent calls, you have a ~12% chance to hit the turn. ~24% chance if you can see a turn a river if you shove and get called, for example.

So, c-betting most flops with AK is going to earn you the pot more often than not even if you do miss it, but you have to keep in mind your opponents raising and 3bet calling range. The tighter the range, the less equity you have against them when c-bet on missed flops. The wider the range, the more equity you have.

AK vs other hands:

I think a common misunderstanding a lot of newer players have are the preflop odds to win with AK vs other hands.

In the thread, a member mentioned that 67 is 40% to win against AK's 60%. And yes, this is true but it only applies if you are guaranteed to see all 5 cards. Otherwise, AK has much more equity over 67 on most flops when both miss and even when 67 hits a single pair after calling a preflop and is facing c-bet aggression. Even on flop of 6-Q-2, it could be hard to call a c-bet with MP/WK since the turn can bring a lot of over cards that can shut it down, especially if AK fires a 2nd barrel.

The same goes for 22 vs AK. Yes, this is a classic race situation, but again, that only applies if all 5 cards are seen. AK as a lot of equity against 22 because 88% of the time over cards are going to flop. So, even if AK misses, it's very hard for 22 to continue on a 5-8-10 flop facing a c-bet.

A member said that 22 and QQ against AK is practically the same thing and this is not true at all. Yes, AK vs QQ is 50/50 preflop if all cards to be seen. However, AK doesn't have as much equity on a missed flop against QQ as it does 22. Going back to the OP, a 3-J-7 flop is going to be very hard for 22 to continue against a c-bet, but it's very easy for QQ to continue. Again, the tighter the raise/3bet calling range your opponent has, the less equity you have on missed flops.

Shoving vs calling shoves with AK

Aggression is the key when playing AK because you can either win it by having the best hand or by getting your opponent to fold. So, you would rather be one to be betting/shoving than being the one calling shoves on missed flops.

AK, on a missed flop, has ~24% chance of hitting on the turn or river when facing a shove. So, you'll need to be getting over 3.15:1 pot odds to make this call a profitable one. However, if we flip and we're the one's shoving with AK on a missed flop, say 7-J-3, we still have equity to hit when called, but make it hard for some hands to call with, like 55, so we gain when they fold. Being the aggressor gives us 2 ways to win vs only 1.

Whether you should standard c-bet missed flop or shove it with AK depends on effect stack sizes. If stacks are deep, then you're better off making a standard c-bet. You'll either win the pot uncontested and if your opponent calls, you can re-evaluate on the turn. However, with deep stacks, you don't want to shove on a missed flops because your opponent is still folding if they miss, but they're only calling your shove with hands that have you beat. Even with your ~24% to hit on turn or river, you're not getting the right pot odds to make this type of play profitable.

In the AK vs 100BB all-in early in a tournament, here is a response I made in a different thread:

-Just because they're aggressive doesn't mean you need to risk your tournament life early on, but it would ultimately be up to you. It's still early in tournament and lets say you have a 100BB stack, you're not giving up a lot by raising 9BBs and folding to a shove. If UTG has any pair under AK, you're in a 50/50 situation and if they have any non-paired hand without A or K, like 10J or QJ, you're roughly a 60% favorite to win. So, to make a profitable call, the pot should be laying to to 2:1 or 1.6:1 respectively.

Lets say effect stacks are 1000 with 5/10 blinds.

-UTG raises to 30
-You 3bet to 90
-UTG shoves all in.
-Pot is now 90 + 30 + 15 + 970 = 1105
-It's costing you 910 to win a pot of 1105, only giving you 1.2:1 odds. This is much less than the odds of your hand holding up, so it should be a fold. However, like I said, it's up to you if you think you should risk a possible 50/50 or 60/40 situation this early on in a tournament.

Best case scenario is if they have a hand like KQ, AQ, AJ where you're dominating and are an 80% favorite to win and the pot is just barely giving your the right odds to call (slightly under) but you can only really make that call if that's what you think they have. Again, it's risking 100BBs, so even in that situation, I still think a fold is the right play. Worst case is if they have AA or KK.

So, as played, I think it's an easy fold preflop this early in the tournament. You aren't getting the odds to call in what's most likely a 50/50 or 60/40 situation. I think the 3 bet preflop was fine with AK, though. You were just put into a tough situation early on.-

I would like to add that in re-buy tournaments, I might call an all in preflop with AK just because I can either win a huge pot or I can re-buy in the MTT if I bust. In standard tournaments, I learn more towards a fold.

So, when should you be shoving with AK? Preflop, it's pretty standard you should be shoving with AK when you're short stacked. You should 3bet shove if you have a stack where a standard 3bet is committing you to the pot since you wont have any fold equity on the flop if you shove. You also commit yourself if your opponent 4 bets and folding after putting in 50% of your stack preflop/on the flop is just bad. At least 3bet shoving preflop you have fold equity preflop and some if called. On the flop, you should be shoving if your stack is about equal to the pot or less, or if a standard c-bet commits you to the pot of you're raised/called.

Sorry if this post was really long.
 
ribaric

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If you have AK and you dnt hit the fold thats an easy fold and i raise AK but if i dnt hit flop i fold no matter what. 22 can easly win AK AQ AJ....
I never go all in when i have AK cuz any pair is better
 
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ph_il

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If you have AK and you dnt hit the fold thats an easy fold and i raise AK but if i dnt hit flop i fold no matter what. 22 can easly win AK AQ AJ....
I never go all in when i have AK cuz any pair is better
If you read my post above, I give reasons why and how AK >22 in most situations.

You dont need to fold AK when you miss the flop. The same can't be said for 22 when you miss, even if it is a made pair. How confident are you continuing with 22 after calling a preflop raise and facing a c-bet on a board of 10-7-J?

Also, AK vs 22-QQ is a race. Meaning, AK is mathematically going to win 50% of the time when all-in vs any of these pairs. So, you're giving up good spots when effective stack sizes allows you to get it in with AK.
 
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NKGB13

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Well I would maintain my hand strenght by forcing the opponents out. Unless of course it's a really dangerous flop or the opponent shows they hit a crazy hand.
 
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