This is your Week 3 discussion topic for the CardsChat Forum Challenge. Feel free to join in the discussion, even if you aren't doing the Challenge!



Not that we've discussed bankroll management, let's talk about what you should play. The answer is likely to be different for everyone. It's a common misconception that, if they're both the same poker variant (in this case Texas Hold'em), cash games and tournament strategies are the same. Well...that is simply not the case. While basic concepts will be the same or similar, both tournaments and cash games have different strategies and approaches based on their format alone.

Read through this strategy article and share your thoughts:

Tournaments vs Cash Games

Points you may want to discuss:

• Which is your game of choice?
  
• What is the biggest difference that you were surprised to learn between the two game formats?
• Do you alternate between the two? If so, what are your strong points and weaknesses?
  

These threads have been sparking some great discussions! Can't wait to read your thoughts!

MTT
Cash games are very predatory will MTT are exciting and fun.
Weakness in MTT is that I play only the biggest I can find which increases my risk of ruin to above 100%. Cash games I tilt bad when I am losing and should not be.


Here is my opinion on why you should not play cash games.
They are very predatory.They are not fun/exciting to play unless you are not practicing bankroll management in which case your risk of ruin is above 100% and you are guaranteed to lose your money. Cash games are exponentially skill based luck is just a short term nuisance in cash games. You lose money faster and the risk of losing is way more likely than winning given the nature of NLH (i.e more losing hands,bad beats are objectively very likely etc.) In cash games you really need to play the field and constantly double up/ triple up and use a new table with bankroll management as the game totally changes when you become deep. You risk a lot to win a little. Risking $1,000 to win likely $1,000 maybe $3,000 at 5/10 with NLH risk and variance is way worse than risking $1,000 to win $600,000 in MTT's ACR's Sunday Million for example.

Only reason to play cash game is to prey on new players. Playing against anyone that knows what there doing is at best a rake generator and at worst -EV.

Well I have a terrible experience with cash games, where if you are hit by tilt, you could loose a lot of money for no time, lol! So, I do not play cash games since 6 months and concentrate myself in tournament poker. My favorite though are Sit and Goes 0,50 and Spin and Goes 0,25 and 1,00. I like to play them because I rarely see me in minus there, and also could easily recognize the opponents - who is fish and who is shark

As said above, I prefer non cash games. I do not find myself ready for them, despite I had some success previously. Maybe with the new inventions of PS to come in force, I will try again, but for now - definitely no

Also cash games are more competitive and less softer all factors considered. The big money (Millions) is protected by extraordinary skilled players with unusually good memory,concentration,and poker social intelligence. While MTT the main thing protecting big money is luck.

MTT Cash games are great, I always play where I see a tournament there I'm applying, I'm a beginner so do not be scared to see me lose with low pairs and so on.

good I think that efficient way and in my opinion, I played both modes and I believe that in the tournament you can evaluate the game take more favorable initiatives ... as you mentioned above the basic concepts are the same or similar ... only varies
* the strategy that is different for each mode ...

I do not alternate between the two I get on the MTT thx for all

Which is your game of choice?

R. well my game in particular is the MTT I feel more comfortable playing long tournaments than casg tables .. the big difference is when I play cash tables I go very fast on tilt and that is not good for my bankroll .. but I consider myself a good player long tournaments and I get more confidence when I always enter ITM ..

Cache and MTT is Texas hold'em, it seems they are only rules
Cache, I go into the game and first hand KK, I think is not bad the day begins and everything turned out much worse set of kings fell under the street, a second arm 99 and again playing in minus, the third hand KK and again, after the third hand I left the table
here the first difference is the cache that we can leave the table at any time
MTT this is the game for a few hours
MTT I watched the game the guy was playing 8 hours, was not a good game and left chips 1BB , he entered itm with 6bb and in the end he won the tournament
baiyin 3.30$ and the prize is$ 850 for 1st place
I'll only play MTT and I know 8 hours of play it's not easy
I know of no one who would Keshi played 8 hours is a strong difference games

Dont have a prefered 1, but deffinetly enjoy MTT more than cash. Although Cash is conssidered better $/hr it's a grin at it's finest and that ccan bee good and can be bad. In addition cash is getting harder and harder, NL50 is not comparable to abi20.
Abd I do agree on the predatory aspect of cash. You are "bum-hunting24/7" this is also quite borring, as you can be waiting hours for you "rec" and no get anything. MTT's due to structure and style of play will get you much mopre tillted thoug =)
I think the hardest part mtt/cash diff wise is adjusting to blind play,as of ten hands you can affrod to play in MTT you would be gladly playing in cash + the sole fact that you will bust constantly with a better hand with no ability to rebuy =(

I play in both types of tournament of course. Recently, I started playing in cash games more. Both types have their pluses and minuses. The main advantages cash games is that you can leave the game at any moment, unlike MTT where you need to play for several hours for prize. Minuses cash games may be a conspiracy of players, of course, poker rooms are struggling with it, but they will not banned everyone bad players. When playing MTT, need to be ready to lose many free time. Previously, I played only MTT, but now it's been a bit cash games for save time.

I prefer defenitely tourneys, no matter if MTT or SNG. Honestly, I just feel more confident with them.

Well, I also played already cash games, but I am not experienced with them. When I played them it was at the time, when I started freerolling and building up a bankroll.

Therefore I never bought in with the maximum stack and played more the short stacked strategy. For me it was less risky to buy-in only with 15 blinds and to leave table, when I was at 20 blinds or to top-up again, when I was at 10 blinds. I never played the big stack strategy so far at cash games altough it is so often recommended by regular players. It was always a bit scary for me...

Well, I could give it a try meanwhile, but I guess I would have to learn much about cash games and would get probably a bloody nose at the beginning.

I have played both and much prefer MTT over cash games
In cash i pretty much stick to the capped games which can limit my loses. They offer you more time to identify players habits and gain stats much more then tournaments where you often have new players arriving or you are being moved to a new table, never able to get a great handle on any one player
Cash can be a slower paced game in my world and you could loose a lot of money in no time, and i often go on tilt more so when having achieved a bigger stack,
While Tournys can offer low entries via sattalites into big payout tournys and rewards
Tournies require alot of patience and time

I have the worst experience with cash game , talking about me , many times when I decided to focus on cash first games I get some great results but after downswings came , I think they didn't much with my play style .. so I prefer Mtts , simply because I love challenges , playing in a big field a lot of players and survive is a very huge challenge , the atmosphere of mtts is very different to cash , facing a lot of people etc.. in addition you learn a lot from it patient and good analyses and other things and the most important that I do better in Mtts than cash games.

In my case, I've tried both modalities and I've had positive results and not so good in both, today I get more profits and I've seen my bank grow playing more cash, however I never stop playing MTTs, they are the perfect match for me, luck at the tables.
It is playing with intelligence and more with discipline, respecting achievements and avoiding losing too much in our bank.

I prefer MTT,sometimes I can play and cash.The tournament is impossible to lose more than the amount you invested in him by paying the buy-in .Losing all your chips, you just eliminated from the tournament .In the cache you will be able to play until you have in your wallet is money and this amount will be enough to make the minimum re-purchase.
The main advantage of the MTT-big wins,so I started to play MTT tournaments .Cache me play harder because I play so rarely, I think cash players are stronger and without the software for poker is hard to compete with them

I personally prefer freezeout tourmaments, I like the concept of everyone having the same starting stack and 1 life each. I believe that you could make more money faster playing cash games but there is also a bigger financial risk opposed to a set buy-in for tournaments. I stick to mostly tournaments online but I will dabble in cash games when sites have promotions for missions.

I think that you need to stick with what you are most comfortable playing and have the best results in. I have had much more success playing live cash games opposed to online cash games, I find online cash games much more aggressive, but that could be because I am playing smaller limits online. For now I will stick to tournaments because I have the most fun playing those and my best results have come from them.

Well, I guess I'm going against the grain so to speak and I'll put a point on the cash game side versus tournaments

While I do alternate between the two, my game of choice is cash. Several reasons:
- I enjoy the Zoom / Fast forward format, and can get a large number of hands in less time
- I like Party because the player pool is smaller and I can get a good amount of stats on players in the faster format
- My times that I can focus without distractions is limited, so playing hours of tournaments isn't an option. Unless I want to play distracted
- I tend to get more tilted investing time in a tournament, only to suffer a bad beat more than when I lose a stack playing cash
- I stop often to take notes, look over hands, and review my play. This costs me nothing in a cash game, but in a tournament I will blind down

I tend to stick to 2NL on Stars and 5NL on Party - and yes, overall, I'm up on both sites.

Biggest difference - cash games, people don't fold. They just go pull more funds if they are wrong, but they gain the info from the hand. Bluffing also goes down as a result.

I've done well rationalizing hands and avoiding tilt in cash games, while in tournaments I tend to not ramp up aggression when I get chips.

Personally, I prefer to play MTT than cash; however I have been known to throw in my hand in cash games and have some good results.

So....why do I prefer MTT? Firstly I enjoy the long haul approach. While you can go for the long haul in cash, I think think there is a better risk / reward ratio in MTT and it is easier to manage your bankroll.

I do think that the most important thing to remember about deciding whether to play cash or MTT is to appreciate and understand that there IS a difference, which is well described and explained in the article. I think any new player (and indeed some not so new) would do well to red this article and the very helpful links that are included in it.

Good luck whichever format you choose.

BB

I play all games and tournaments and MTT and SNG when I have a lot of free time, but when I have little time I play a cache game, MTT tournaments take a very long time of 3 -4 or more hours, I like to play in tournaments MTT than cash games!

I prefer tournaments i have tried couple of times cash games but nope i think you need more patience and time to have some decent profit of course you can win in instant cash but you can easily lose them, i prefer control my bankroll so MTTs are fine to me .

The first time I played live NLHE at a casino, I chose a one table tournament because there was a fixed single buy-in and that was the limit of my possible loss. My son knew I would be playing poker, so I dreaded being the first one out. Oddly enough, I won that tournament....and I haven't won since (about 10 years ago). These days, when I play live in Niagara Falls or Las Vegas, I am more comfortable playing $1-2 cash games. Yes, a $110 investment in a tournament could yield a big payday in the thousands, but I find it easier to turn my $200 cash buy-in into $400 than to make the money in most tournaments. Comfort and confidence is important in poker, so that should determine what poker format you choose.

Personally I played the two modalities but it has been better to play in mtt , in real money I really can not say the same thing that has my biggest losses in this modality , but it is a question of taste where the player feels more comfortable, the best council is the gameplay of the modality that generates profits and not lost

The article mentions staying within BR for both cash and tournament play. My Bankroll stays under 100 most of the time so my playing .01/,02 tables is right where i should be. I did find I'm playing higher tournament buy ins then I should and plan to adjust that thinking.

One other point that caught my eye was "Not defending blinds in tournament vs Do defend in cash. I play so little cash but agree that play should be tight from go and that blinds are your cash money makin defending them a must. Tournament play is looser especially early when blinds are low and antes are nill. I follow this way of thinking while playing the two.

I prefer tournament play because it allows me to play my game that has highs and lows that i ride throughout the tourney. I'm not comfortable placing my money in jeopardy every hand i play in cash games but do like the freedom to get up and walk when i choose.

Cache is stability. I'm stabil losing.
MTT is not stable. In one month you are a king and a god, and then months the variance takes yours and you can lose large sums. This is inevitable. No plans are out of the question, as long as you do not have a stable large bankroll, there is no delayed "airbag" and there are no abilities to beat this field regularly.
The question of time costs is also acute. If there is not enough time - Cache, if a lot of time - MTT. If you are alone and you have nothing to do, then you can play MTT + cache ..
The simplest solution is to combine these disciplines.

I do not have the best idea for Cash game, I played several times unsuccessfully, it's very boring for me, and I need a lot of money for this kind of game, so I prefer MTT, more excitement and I'm used to playing.
According to me, one of the best ones on SnG is a real action, and I had a success, just a bit on one I took almost $ 400 for 3 hours of play , only as fewer players play this game since the BOUNTY tournaments were introduced .

My game of choice are tournaments.
The only time I play cash game is during some promotion.
But I am very bad at it
Earning money at cash table is very fast but we can lose it so fast too.
Tournament can be soooo long , but at least I don't lose more than the buy-inn.
I should stay away from cash table.

I prefer tournaments too - but certainly see the appeal of playing cash games. Love that you can get up and leave whenever you want, take breaks etc.

Nice discussion this week!

Out of the two I'd pick cash cause I'm a cash player . But I do play tourneys very occasionally and have some thoughts to expand towards them more in the future.

Cash games are tougher than tourneys but more technical & stable.
They are tougher because almost all the winning players put ton of work into their game. They've seen the same scenario multiple times & have a balance strategy to how to play in certain scenarios.
So out of the tourney & cash pools I'd say without a doubt that better poker players are cash players overall.
And the other thing is stability. Also you have the option to play whenever you want & leave whenever you want - So the freedom.

And tbh, cash players tend to do better at tourneys as well because they have the better understanding of the game at the beginning due to deep stack play.
I myself when I play tourneys do okay getting into the payouts by playing my normal game exploiting players, getting advantages over certain spots etc.

But when it comes to short stack play & people start shoving into each other, then things change a lot.
That bring to my next point. Which is tourneys involves a lot of variance & a lot of luck.
No matter how good you'll play in a tourney making all the right decisions, one flip that goes against you will determine everything. So the better player doesn't win always & perhaps will never get lucky in making some big amount.

It is so frustrating to know that if you could just hold on a bit longer you could've got paid 5 times more than you did. But you got in your aces as you should against K9off & the v caught trips.
So to counter this more volume is needed in tourneys as well as studying short stack play, push/fold charts & ICM considerations.

They big money in tourneys are at the final table & the odds are very much against you making their but the reward is bigger.
And that's why I'm also looking forward to put some more time & volume into tourneys in the future.

But I'd say to all the up comers that say cash is hard or boring to ditch those thoughts & try them at least once in a while & to get better, because you'll become a better poker player overall by playing cash & you'll definitely have the edge in the tourneys in doing so.

P.S - I've noticed that in the CC article it says that you defend your blinds more in cash than you do in tourneys but in my experience this is not true. At least in the modern day tourneys we defend our Big blind a lot. Sometimes I even defend with 72s considering the price I'm getting. At cash this totally differs cause no antes plus the blinds doesn't increase so the ranges are tighter so stealing doesn't make much sense from certain spots.

Think the difference between cash and tourneys is one is mostly a preflop game and one is mostly a postflop game. In tourneys you are generally not playing as deep so more of the focus is on preflop. Also in cash you can add chips so people tend to get more fancy postflop. ICM is a factor in Mtts while in cash you dont have to worry about it. I prefer to play tourneys because I think they are easier to multitable with the more straight forward postflop play.

Being mainly a free-roller, my experience in cash games is limited. That been said, I like playing cash games sometimes. I mean, appart from Sit'n'Gos, MTTs need a lot of time to complete. Thus, when your time is limited, tourneys are not an option. Another advantage of cash tables is that variance is a lot smaller than in MTTs, whereas the scarcer rewards in those are way bigger. So, if anybody thinks of poker as a serious grind, cash is the name of game, unless you can play multiple tourneys every day. recreational players would have more fun in MTTs, in my opinion.

I prefer mtts , when I play cashgame I always lose, I dont know why but it is hard for me

I like to play tournaments but I try to progress in cash games.
My opinion is that it is better to start playing tournaments and once you have a considerable bank you can try cash games.
the difference that cost me the most is defending the blinds, the defense is very different between one modality and the other, it is easier for me to defend it in tournaments. in cash usually if someone enters the game and open his hand is because he has a considerable hand.
I am playing both modalities, but I prefer not to play in cash since I have more weaknesses than fortresses, I think one of my strengths is to play aggressively in both modalities and the weakness is also the same for both and it is the entering in tilt and the bad management of my bank.

Αλλά είμαι πολύ κακός σε αυτό: (κερδίζοντας χρήματα στο τραπέζι μετρητών είναι πολύ γρήγορο, αλλά μπορούμε να το χάσουμε τόσο γρήγορα.) Το τουρνουά μπορεί να είναι τόσο μεγάλο, αλλά τουλάχιστον δεν χάνω περισσότερο από το buy-inn. μακριά από τον πίνακα μετρητών. [/ QUOTE]

Τrue with you!!!
an me too my game is Tournaments!!
because you said so in cash you can not afford more than the original buy-in
and too in Cash games if you havent any money from other players in table you are lost!!!
I play cash game some times for fun!! 2-3$

I love to play Mtts, it's a marathon challenge to make it down to the final table. That's not to say I don't love to unwind after busting out of a tourney and sitting down at a cash game, it even helps for more tourney bucks

I agree with the article for tournaments , it is just a matter of playing the best hands - so many times I have folded winning hands and of course it would have been with smaller cards, but it is not good to keep calling - have learned that the hard way to , you need to fold a lot more in the beginning and play better hands. ( that doesn't always guarantee a win though)
I find I do better in spin and go's with only two players besides me. Then it is a matter of playing almost every hand , and watching how the flops are coming out - it seems there is a pattern that happens in each game - so I find it best to fold the first hand even in those games.
Cash games , unless you have a fairly good hand - 10's or better then you may want to fold as well until you get a fell for how the cards are flopping out. Then you can be more aggressive.
Either way , if you don't have a very good hand , and someone jumps all in or a big raise pre-flop , just fold ... I do.( unless you are felling reckless, or have been ticked off and just want out of the game )

I play both live and online. I play a lot more live cash than live tournaments. Weekly casino tournaments are a lot of fun but they are very high variance. Online cash games on pokerstars are very competitive with a ton of good players at almost every level so I tend to play cash games at smaller sites were the player pool is softer.
The biggest difference in my own game between tournaments and cash is I like to slow play big hands and gamble more with weak draws in tournaments and in cash I like to play my big hands and bluffs the same way and I tend to just flat with draws, unless there combo draws.

Hi guys.

I prefer to play MTT, I think because I started playing this format, the cash game is a more daring game style in the sense of cash in the box, being able to win a lot in a short time and also lose a lot in a short time, I hope in the future to separate one part of the cash on hand, for play cash game.
Everything in its time.
We are together.
😎👊🍀💰

I've always looked at MTTs vs Cash as fixed risk vs more open ended risk. When I am cash poor and I want to play live, I know that I can buy into a $110 MTT and potentially win up to $2K while risking only $110 that is "spent". If I bust, I go home. If I choose to play a cash game and buy in for $200 on a $1/2 table, the potential gain is realistically less than the MTT, but the chance of some gain is higher. The rake on a live $1/2 table is brutal where I play - $2 for the bad beat jackpot and 10% up to $10 (I think) - therefore over 10% potentially. Losses on cash table are also cut with the perk of free, albeit mediocre, food. Danger rears its head if I take a bad beat on the cash table, bust, and want to rebuy.

It's different for online micro stakes. I have always fallen back on the above mentioned strategy for online micros, Online MTTs do follow the fixed risk outline, but a couple weeks of regular play has changed my mind somewhat about online micro cash.

Online micro cash has several mitigating circumstances that can change my approach. The rake is lower than I remember from a couple years ago when I played cash online more regularly - about five percent, rounded down. The rakeback system at PokerStars has never seemed to me to be worth much effort. However, the last two weeks or so, with all the games (like card match), holiday promos, etc, I've pulled in about $5 in bonus money to go along with about $10 in table profit (in a few thousand hands). A small sample size to be sure, but larger than live samples and easier to follow and assess than "value of a club sandwich" and "chance of winning that $200K Bad Beat".

Also, playing Zoom allows one to take advantage of position without being on the same table with the same players for a whole session. This of course works for other players as well, but it's not the same as live or micro non Zoom.

My new preliminary conclusion is that the potential profit rate vs risk on online micro cash tables is better than I thought.

I prefer cash games because cash games is the only way to make steady income in poker

But I do also love tournies, nothing feels better than being 1st in a tournie

But I don't like online cash games, to many regs multi-tableing , it's a real grind

Live cash games bring in schools of fish that will gamble lots of money with garbage cards.

Live 1/2 is the smallest NL game you will find at a casino, so it brings in some amazingly bad players

I'm an mtt player but like to play cash games on the side sometimes. I'm more profitable playing mtts though.

I play as MTT and the cache just before the beginning of the session I decide what I will play but when I play MTT and cash at the same time because strategy these 2 varieties of poker is very a lot different from each other if you decide to play cache in the session cache only.

I have played a lot of Sit&Gos. I have done the same MTT. 2-6-8-9 player single table. Freerolls and Cash.After all this time, though, I can say that over a period of time, I lose my deposit. So for me, I stick to freeroll MTTs. They build my skills and are loads of fun.