NCfoldem
Rock Star
Silver Level
When I have had a small BR I can manage to gradually increase it for a few days until the day that I get 5 bad beats or whatever and lose everything I've gained. There are probably days that I would have won big if I didn't stop playing, however I don't reasonably expect to win a bunch of big pots in one day so I stop playing when I'm a modest amount ahead. On the flip side I don't expect several bad beats in one day, yet it happens all the time. Micro tables also have the most donks. If you are the best player at the table, you still can't statistically beat a whole table full of players who refuse to fold, and this is often the case at low money tables. It's quite a dilemma - I wish you good luck in your endeavor.
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
I'm with you here! Also, I'm not so sure about the stupid comment on the stupid bumping post against bumping. But, from a site that is interested in getting there traffic up and post count up it should not be a shock.
But, what is a very legitimate question should have been followed by responses that covered what size bankroll would be needed, the games to play, and the time playing to make that kind of return a day. Then posts could be made on how to get their bankroll from point A to point B so that they can begin to make that kind of return. $50 is not enough of a br to start playing the games necessary for that kind of regular profit!
GL to all!
atlantafalcons0
Legend
Silver Level
forsakenone
Legend
Silver Level
ok, let me tell you how i did it, had 20$ on pokerstars for months, playing 1$ tourneys, i kept breaking even. i sayd the heck with it, googled a strategy or anything that could help me, lucky i came across cardschat 
decided maybe i should give cash games a chance, join 4 tables 2nl with 1$ on each, waited for a good hand, raise preflop, if flop helped me a bit, or there wasnt an overpair, i would push all in (because i was really shortstack).
build a bit of a bankroll, added more tables, started playing with 100 BB, than 150 BB, and so on.
things going pretty good right now, i play on several sites, pokerstars send me a cec recently, but yeah, dont set a goal like winning 25$/day, because you might win 25$ today, and lose 100 in the next 2 days, or maybe 1 week, and then what? just play your best poker and see where it gets you!
and dont forget about bankroll management!
decided maybe i should give cash games a chance, join 4 tables 2nl with 1$ on each, waited for a good hand, raise preflop, if flop helped me a bit, or there wasnt an overpair, i would push all in (because i was really shortstack).
build a bit of a bankroll, added more tables, started playing with 100 BB, than 150 BB, and so on.
things going pretty good right now, i play on several sites, pokerstars send me a cec recently, but yeah, dont set a goal like winning 25$/day, because you might win 25$ today, and lose 100 in the next 2 days, or maybe 1 week, and then what? just play your best poker and see where it gets you!
and dont forget about bankroll management!
C
cAPSLOCK
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
You need to understand how very wrong this statement is. In the situation you describe you can make money by being fairly passive with speculative hands, betting for value with strong ones, folding easily when you are behind their ranges and trapping people when you get monsters. The only situation better than this is the same table with a few nits mixed in instead of the calling stations.
tomh7795
Visionary
Silver Level
Maybe he was on a large downswing?
G
genozzolo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I found very profitable Titan Poker double up, started with 10 euro, reached 70 in few days,first did only 1 and 2 dollars double up, after i builded 20 euro, i tryed 5 dollars double up and then lately i do 10 dollars double up.
I tryed cash games but im not good for it i just loose money even at micro stakes dont know why, probally i m not good to play when ive to invest direct money and not chips, dunno >_<
I tryed cash games but im not good for it i just loose money even at micro stakes dont know why, probally i m not good to play when ive to invest direct money and not chips, dunno >_<
G
Grinder101
Rock Star
Silver Level
You have a gift for absurdity, please keep playing poker.
NCfoldem
Rock Star
Silver Level
In my experience, people who refuse to fold suck out much more often than I can afford. I play 6 player tables mostly, but there might be 3 who will play any two cards and not fold (even to an all-in) when they are crushed. My better hand (sometimes much better) does not hold up often enough to be profitable. I can go days without once being the underdog in any all-in situation. Or an entire tournament without once being an underdog, but eventually a bad beat will knock me out or take my money. I figured that this was typical for everyone at low stake tables or free rolls. Have others experienced something different?
KyleJRM
Visionary
Silver Level
Please don't take this the wrong way, but everyone who is good at poker experiences something different.
The fundamental formula of poker:
Bad players playing bad cards = money.
Everything else is just Fancy Play Syndrome.
KyleJRM
Visionary
Silver Level
There are two possibilities:
1) You haven't played enough hands for luck to regress to the mean.
2) You are getting a normal amount of suckouts on you, but you have so many leaks in the rest of your game that you are still losing, and it feels like it's the rag-fu that's keeping you from winning, but really it's the other leaks.
NCfoldem
Rock Star
Silver Level
Well I have been playing mostly every day for 3 years online. I can finish in the top 5 or 10% of most tourneys, but in ring games can make a 50% profit (for example) in two hours of play only to lose it all with 1 bad beat. I've tried quitting when I'm a certain amount ahead, etc. etc. Nothing works. The bad beats will take all of my profits. Remember I'm talking about bad beats, not just hand losses. I just assumed that this is how it was for everyone at the lower stake tables, and that if I could afford to play higher stakes (which I can't) I would have a different experience. Is there no one in Cardschat who can relate to this?
slycbnew
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Everyone, in one way or another, can relate to what you're describing. Kyle's point is that everyone takes the bad beats as well, but that better players win money even when they're taking the same bad beats as everyone else.
As examples, someone who doesn't value bet well is not going to make enough money on his/her winning hands to compensate for the bad beats. Someone who doesn't know when to bluff/semi-bluff effectively (and when to not bother to try) isn't going to make enough money stealing pots to compensate for bad beats. Someone who can't hand read and botches their betsizing isn't going to optimize returns on winning hands. Someone who doesn't know when to simply c/f isn't going to minimize losses on losing hands. Etc.
As examples, someone who doesn't value bet well is not going to make enough money on his/her winning hands to compensate for the bad beats. Someone who doesn't know when to bluff/semi-bluff effectively (and when to not bother to try) isn't going to make enough money stealing pots to compensate for bad beats. Someone who can't hand read and botches their betsizing isn't going to optimize returns on winning hands. Someone who doesn't know when to simply c/f isn't going to minimize losses on losing hands. Etc.
KyleJRM
Visionary
Silver Level
I'm not a good poker player, but I'm good by microstakes standards. Yesterday in about 6 hours of 4-tabling NL4, I lost full stacks or more all-in in the following situations:
QQ > AA
KK > AA
A6 > AQ
85s > KK
72 > A7 (guy was tilting and shoving pre-flop every hand)
I still finished up seven buy-ins for the day.
There will be downswings of many thousands of hands, sure. But if you are losing money in the long run, then the problem is you and not the luck.
NCfoldem
Rock Star
Silver Level
I understood what he meant. Its fairly easy to spot a bad player after just a few hands. (players who always call an all-in bet on an inside str8 draw, etc.). What I'm saying is that these players hit their inside straights, or flop trips, or whatever often enough to take all of my money. Not the same player over and over of course, they eventually lose everything, but collectively the table will bad beat me out of anything I've won. It helps me to know that this is not a common experience - I think.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
It happens (or.. 'shit happens'). Slycbnew has some great comments above.
Get your chips in good.... 'let go' of the results. Sometimes you will experience lengthy periods where you will be getting it in good & losing often (downswings/variance, etc.). Just try to persevere & consider it practise on working on poker mindset (don't tilt, take a few breaths, approach each new situation w/o carring over the bs from the badbeats).
Things will work out for you in the 'longrun' (sometimes the 'longrun' seems reallllllly long).
About 6mos. into my online poker playing journey I lost 20 sng's in-a-row, getting it in good in ~95% of those situations. I found it to be devastating at the time but it did give me a good oppurtunity to work on Poker Mindset (something I think I'll always need work on).
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
KyleJRM
Visionary
Silver Level
I'm only playing on Cake right now. I don't recall the hand you are talking about, I'll check my hand history when I'm off work this evening. That doesn't sound like something I'd do without a good reason
NCfoldem
Rock Star
Silver Level
Suckouts vs Badbeats (somewhat long)
I've given this a lot of thought. I suffer many more bad beats than I get suckouts. For good reason: I don't get myself into races very often when I'm behind. Someone, maybe it was Kyle, I don't remember, said earlier in this thread that they suffered about 5 all-in bad beats in one day but still came out ahead? How? If it was due to suckouts, that's lucky play, not good play. You could gamble and slow play good hands (not monsters) alot, but you would still be relying on luck to avoid your opponent(s) from catching up. If it was done gradually, it seems like one would have to play for 20 hours to make up the 5 all-ins lost. One other possibility, I suppose is multi-table play. I have to admit, I have no idea how this figures in. Go ahead, tell me I'm absurd, if your ego needs it - I'm sure I will be bemused by the response.
I've given this a lot of thought. I suffer many more bad beats than I get suckouts. For good reason: I don't get myself into races very often when I'm behind. Someone, maybe it was Kyle, I don't remember, said earlier in this thread that they suffered about 5 all-in bad beats in one day but still came out ahead? How? If it was due to suckouts, that's lucky play, not good play. You could gamble and slow play good hands (not monsters) alot, but you would still be relying on luck to avoid your opponent(s) from catching up. If it was done gradually, it seems like one would have to play for 20 hours to make up the 5 all-ins lost. One other possibility, I suppose is multi-table play. I have to admit, I have no idea how this figures in. Go ahead, tell me I'm absurd, if your ego needs it - I'm sure I will be bemused by the response.
KyleJRM
Visionary
Silver Level
Multitabling and hitting a heater outside of the suckouts.
On the day in question, I played 1939 hands in 6.2 hours, averaging about 3 tables at a time.
In the same day I had the five big suckouts against me that were posted earlier, I had the following:
2 all-in AA preflop that held up
Sucked out with a set in QQ vs. AA with some dead money in the pot as well
Hit set mines vs. big overpairs and stacked people on the flop with 77, 33, 55 and TT
Got all-in with a halfstack QQ vs. JJ and won
Completely abused a calling station for a buyin when he was sitting directly to my right
Won a coin flip with a guy who was tilting and shoving every hand, 55 > AJ
I'm not saying overcoming 5 big bad beats in one day is normal. Usually it takes longer. But if you are good at poker, you will overcome them eventually. If you aren't, then you'll complain about them in forums and wonder why you keep losing money.
NCfoldem
Rock Star
Silver Level
Kyle, I said I can't afford the bad beats. I never said that I couldn't eventually come out ahead. I just don't have the money to afford the big downward swing. You seem rather defensive - how come? I joined this site to help improve my game. At least I'm honest about my shortcomings. Let's face it, this site is full of players who would like us to believe that they are the second coming of Phil Hellmuth!