Lots of ways to punish limpers

[Dobbler1]

I like exploiting limpers. It's typically very easy, and it's often very profitable. The main way I do that is to make pots expensive preflop with a tighter range so that it's a bad bet to call with the typical wide range a serial limper enters a pot with. I'm willing to raise a limp 7, 10, or even 15 BB...even more, if someone is willing to call it with 74suited.

Today I got to have fun punishing limpers in a different way. I had 74suited in the BB and two serial limpers limped the pot. The board was all uncoordinated low cards, and a 7 hit witch gave me the best hands against KQ suited and KJ off. Just checked down all the way, small pot, but it felt good to win. I assume these guys were hoping I'd raise their limp (as I often do), but instead I took a small pot with a horrible preflop hand that I could easily have been pushed off preflop. A few hands later, from UTG+1, one of these guys limps again. I have 97clubs in the highjack, and I'm the chip leader, so I limp behind. The flop comes 3h-3c-10c and the open limper leads 1/3 pot and I raise and take it down. It's fun winning pots in general, but it's so much fun punishing attempts at "cute" plays.

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

You're probably playing folks that just want to play and see a flop. A lot of folks that make them "pay" will end up trapping themselves or putting their stack at risk on mediocre holdings and over-betting the flop and turn with the mediocre holding that leads them to commit too much of their stack in a pot wondering "how they got to that point".
I disliked UTG raisers because they are scared of the BB which is a clear sign of someone starting out but whatever, I wouldn't go out of my way to make them pay but would put in the notes "beginner" scared of BB, raises UTG and color code them. Tendencies like that is info that you could use for when you really do have a hand or later on in a tourn when there are big antes.

Anyway, GL and have fun with the limpers!! Don't let them tilt you!

 

[LUKADONCICMVP]

i hate limpers, i usually isolate them very wild

 

[Blue_Fossil]

You described one of the best ways to punish limpers. Limp in yourself with a hand you would not have otherwise played, but because they priced you in with their limps, you outflopped them and won the hand.

 

[Dobbler1]

You described one of the best ways to punish limpers. Limp in yourself with a hand you would not have otherwise played, but because they priced you in with their limps, you outflopped them and won the hand.

Yes and no. You're inviting a squeeze from late position doing that, so for the most part I don't. It also opens up very difficult situations like hitting your flush and being beaten by better flushes. I think it's actually the worst way to punish limpers, but it's good to have it in your pocket. You should never have only one tool or response to a situation, or you become exploitable.

The way that I look at it, limpers are telling you "I don't want to play big pots", so the best thing to do is force them to play them.

 

[mssmotilda]

I like exploiting limpers. It's typically very easy, and it's often very profitable. The main way I do that is to make pots expensive preflop with a tighter range so that it's a bad bet to call with the typical wide range a serial limper enters a pot with. I'm willing to raise a limp 7, 10, or even 15 BB...even more, if someone is willing to call it with 74suited.

Today I got to have fun punishing limpers in a different way. I had 74suited in the BB and two serial limpers limped the pot. The board was all uncoordinated low cards, and a 7 hit witch gave me the best hands against KQ suited and KJ off. Just checked down all the way, small pot, but it felt good to win. I assume these guys were hoping I'd raise their limp (as I often do), but instead I took a small pot with a horrible preflop hand that I could easily have been pushed off preflop. A few hands later, from UTG+1, one of these guys limps again. I have 97clubs in the highjack, and I'm the chip leader, so I limp behind. The flop comes 3h-3c-10c and the open limper leads 1/3 pot and I raise and take it down. It's fun winning pots in general, but it's so much fun punishing attempts at "cute" plays.

Lately, I've been seeing more and more how limpers exploit players like you.

 

[NightStalker]

Raise... Always raise to punish limpers!

 

[Dobbler1]

Lately, I've been seeing more and more how limpers exploit players like you.

Care to be more specific? I gave three strategically diverse examples of dealing with limpers... raise their limps with good hands, open up your range and limp behind them, and play passively from the BB. Are you suggesting that there is a limping strategy that is well designed to exploit all of these tactics?

 

[Suns of Beaches]

So u were talking about punishing limpers and then u proceed with horrible raising advice pre and 2 hands where u won limped pots postflop?

"I assume these guys were hoping I'd raise their limp (as I often do)"

why should someone "hope" to get raised after limping with kq/kj? Makes no sense at all.

As smart as u are trying to sound, u got it mostly wrong. Punishing limpers simply means to isolate them preflop by raising their limp.

So who got punished exactly? Absolutely noone.

(Ps: Do u really think people are scared of u as a player? I really doubt anyone who played with u a few times is! And its funny u mention "attempts at cute plays" cause thats exactly what i saw from u)

 

[successlaw]

I usually big isolate them and direct all ins with strong hands

 

[Dobbler1]

So u were talking about punishing limpers and then u proceed with horrible raising advice pre and 2 hands where u won limped pots postflop?

"I assume these guys were hoping I'd raise their limp (as I often do)"

why should someone "hope" to get raised after limping with kq/kj? Makes no sense at all.

As smart as u are trying to sound, u got it mostly wrong. Punishing limpers simply means to isolate them preflop by raising their limp.

So who got punished exactly? Absolutely noone.

(Ps: Do u really think people are scared of u as a player? I really doubt anyone who played with u a few times is! And its funny u mention "attempts at cute plays" cause thats exactly what i saw from u)

What's your problem? Why are you attacking me? Did I do something bad to you in a past life? I'm not trying to sound smart, I'm talking about something I think it true about poker strategy... sort of what this forum is supposed to be for, isn't it? If you disagree about something, be a little more specific and maybe try to be constructive instead of abusive. Does that sound like a fair request?

 

[Suns of Beaches]

What's your problem? Why are you attacking me? Did I do something bad to you in a past life? I'm not trying to sound smart, I'm talking about something I think it true about poker strategy... sort of what this forum is supposed to be for, isn't it? If you disagree about something, be a little more specific and maybe try to be constructive instead of abusive. Does that sound like a fair request?

Everything is said and i was specific enough. Here again for u in short summary: No, winning pots postflop (one by checking down) has nothing to do with punishing limpers. Overraising Preflop is also not recommended in most games.

Ok, sounds fair. i will do my best 🙂-👍

 

[skaterick]

summer is here , and the personal tensions are rising ......

 

[pentazepam]

So to punish you I limp with my good hands and just wait to get raised so I can re-raise?

Kidding aside if people only raise with their good hands and limp with their weak they must have time-traveled from 2010. I almost never see so obvious leaks nowadays.

 

[Pokerpoet2]

Some times it is good to be a limper, especially when you have an aggressive table and you are holding the "nuts", I look at every hand I am dealt and decide there and then before the flop whether I would be prepared to go all-in or not, and if the answer is yes, I will limp, hoping someone will raise me and then I can re-raise 4x betting or even shoving all-in.
On-line I once came up against an aggressive player who would push all-in on every hand I limped in on and I would have to fold mediocre hands, but when he started messaging me calling me a Coward and asking me why I wouldn't call him I just replied "When I'm ready" and left it like that, as the game progressed and he took out players, others joined the table and because I had been ignoring his remarks he started bullying new players.
Eventually I was dealt K/K and thought that's good enough, I limped, he shoved, I called and won. The very next hand I was dealt A/A and thought lets do it again, We did and it was goodnight from him.
So the morale is "Be careful what you wish for" because you can push a person so far, before he pushes back.

 

[Dobbler1]

Some times it is good to be a limper, especially when you have an aggressive table and you are holding the "nuts", I look at every hand I am dealt and decide there and then before the flop whether I would be prepared to go all-in or not, and if the answer is yes, I will limp, hoping someone will raise me and then I can re-raise 4x betting or even shoving all-in.
On-line I once came up against an aggressive player who would push all-in on every hand I limped in on and I would have to fold mediocre hands, but when he started messaging me calling me a Coward and asking me why I wouldn't call him I just replied "When I'm ready" and left it like that, as the game progressed and he took out players, others joined the table and because I had been ignoring his remarks he started bullying new players.
Eventually I was dealt K/K and thought that's good enough, I limped, he shoved, I called and won. The very next hand I was dealt A/A and thought lets do it again, We did and it was goodnight from him.
So the morale is "Be careful what you wish for" because you can push a person so far, before he pushes back.

In the story you describe, the person you are playing against is taking a horrible strategy against limpers (or anyone else). I'm not promoting shoving against every limped pot. My experience is that most limpers are "limper/callers", meaning they'll limp with a wide range of hands and call any preflop raise. What you are describing is a limp/fold strategy, which I honestly think is still a weak strategy, but it's different than what I was addressing, and I would treat it differently.

Against a limper/caller, the best thing I can do is play a normal/tight range (not super nit) and make the pot big when I'm likely to have the best hand, which is most of the time because their range is bigger than mine. If I'm only playing, say... suited connectors, suited aces+, pairs and Broadway cards (depending on position, of course), and they're playing all suited cards, all connectors and semi connectors and better, then preflop, I'm going to be ahead most of the time. My raise amount preflop, knowing this, is to find the largest amount that they'll call with garbage. If I can get them to call a 25 or 30BB raise with 74suited, then that's how much I raise (in a cash game or deep stacked, short stacked tourney is obviously different). 15% of the time they'll have a premium hand, and some percent of that time it will be better than the good/premium hands in my range, and I'll loose a pot. 85% of the time they'll be playing garbage, and they'll fold to a continuation bet, call down with bottom/middle pair and lousy kicker, or rarely they'll hit a 2pair or weak flush and play it over-aggressively, hoping to get called down by over cards or top pair good kicker. I admit I've paid these plays off from time to time, but that was bad play on my part. If I was playing better, then I fold to these over-aggressive moves or bust the player with a set against their 2 pair or a the nut flush against their 7high flush. Obviously different players will have different post-flop tendencies, so I would adjust my play to exploit them as I see them, that's just a general.

Against a limper/folder if I play a decent opening range and just raise roughly pot against the limp. If they fold, great, I pick up an extra BB for very little risk. If they usually fold but now call, then I assume they have decent holdings and play accordingly. I mean if you're limping but only calling raises with good hands, how does that disguise your hand's strength? A guy who limp/folds 30 pots and then limp/shoves on me is only getting a call if I have KK or AA.

 

[Dobbler1]

Everything is said and i was specific enough. Here again for u in short summary: No, winning pots postflop (one by checking down) has nothing to do with punishing limpers. Overraising Preflop is also not recommended in most games.

Let me disagree. When someone has a KQ preflop against a 74, that player has a huge equity advantage (60%-40%). With no action post flop, the KQ will win that pot ~60% of the time. I assume we agree on that, right... it's just basic math. If they had raised from early position, I most likely would have folded preflop. If I had called, hit bottom pair, I still likely would have folded to aggression with bottom pair weak kicker. So them limping and me checking it down denied them value. I'm not suggesting it was a masterful play... it was the obvious play, but it highlights the problem with limping. That play in the context of playing good hands aggressively preflop does add up to punishing limpers. Deny them value when they have good hands, and charge them big to play weak hands. I'm pretty sure that's strong poker strategy.

As far as your comment on "over-raising" I don't know what you mean. Raising when you are the favorite is only sensible, and if you're the large favorite, then it makes sense to raise large if you're going to get called with lots of worse hands, unless you are worrying about ICM stuff, and I mainly play cash. Also, if you don't have fold equity because you're playing against someone who'll call a preflop raise with their entire limping range, then you need to replace that with hand equity and getting maximum value. What, to your mind, makes a particular raise size an "over-raise", and why? Can you over-raise with AA preflop in a cash game if you have good reason to think you'll get called?

Add on edit: Think of it this way. If you could play all in every hand knowing that you always had a 50.1% to 49.9%, you'd be crazy not to play that game. You'd have swings, but over time, it's guaranteed money. If someone limp/calls with the top 50% of cards, and you open-raise/raise with top 25% of cards, then you're the favorite most of the time, right? It's like the 50.1% vs 49.9%, but with better odds, and you get more control.

 

[CNXRegie]

I like exploiting limpers. It's typically very easy, and it's often very profitable. The main way I do that is to make pots expensive preflop with a tighter range so that it's a bad bet to call with the typical wide range a serial limper enters a pot with. I'm willing to raise a limp 7, 10, or even 15 BB...even more, if someone is willing to call it with 74suited.

Today I got to have fun punishing limpers in a different way. I had 74suited in the BB and two serial limpers limped the pot. The board was all uncoordinated low cards, and a 7 hit witch gave me the best hands against KQ suited and KJ off. Just checked down all the way, small pot, but it felt good to win. I assume these guys were hoping I'd raise their limp (as I often do), but instead I took a small pot with a horrible preflop hand that I could easily have been pushed off preflop. A few hands later, from UTG+1, one of these guys limps again. I have 97clubs in the highjack, and I'm the chip leader, so I limp behind. The flop comes 3h-3c-10c and the open limper leads 1/3 pot and I raise and take it down. It's fun winning pots in general, but it's so much fun punishing attempts at "cute" plays.

Nice job on exploiting those limpers! It's always satisfying to punish players who enter pots with weak hands. It sounds like you have a good understanding of their tendencies and how to take advantage of them. Keep up the good work and keep those chips coming your way!

 

[Dobbler1]

So to punish you I limp with my good hands and just wait to get raised so I can re-raise?

Kidding aside if people only raise with their good hands and limp with their weak they must have time-traveled from 2010. I almost never see so obvious leaks nowadays.

I play a pretty weak pool of players (I'm not that great, so it's to my benefit). In this pool, there are lots of players who limp and call raises with their entire range, which is usually very wide. A player who limps and has a VPIP of 25% is not who I'm talking about here. These are guys (and gals I suppose) with VPIPs of 50%+, sometimes literally 100% even. I'm talking about exploiting them. I'm sure there's some hand range where a limp/calling strategy is optimal, but I'm also sure it isn't 75% of hands.

 

[c.heck]

I like exploiting limpers. It's typically very easy, and it's often very profitable. The main way I do that is to make pots expensive preflop with a tighter range so that it's a bad bet to call with the typical wide range a serial limper enters a pot with. I'm willing to raise a limp 7, 10, or even 15 BB...even more, if someone is willing to call it with 74suited.

Today I got to have fun punishing limpers in a different way. I had 74suited in the BB and two serial limpers limped the pot. The board was all uncoordinated low cards, and a 7 hit witch gave me the best hands against KQ suited and KJ off. Just checked down all the way, small pot, but it felt good to win. I assume these guys were hoping I'd raise their limp (as I often do), but instead I took a small pot with a horrible preflop hand that I could easily have been pushed off preflop. A few hands later, from UTG+1, one of these guys limps again. I have 97clubs in the highjack, and I'm the chip leader, so I limp behind. The flop comes 3h-3c-10c and the open limper leads 1/3 pot and I raise and take it down. It's fun winning pots in general, but it's so much fun punishing attempts at "cute" plays.

I limp.
Lets meet at the table.
Lets see if you can punish me (or yourself)

 

[Suns of Beaches]

Let me disagree. When someone has a KQ preflop against a 74, that player has a huge equity advantage (60%-40%). With no action post flop, the KQ will win that pot ~60% of the time. I assume we agree on that, right... it's just basic math. If they had raised from early position, I most likely would have folded preflop. If I had called, hit bottom pair, I still likely would have folded to aggression with bottom pair weak kicker. So them limping and me checking it down denied them value. I'm not suggesting it was a masterful play... it was the obvious play, but it highlights the problem with limping. That play in the context of playing good hands aggressively preflop does add up to punishing limpers. Deny them value when they have good hands, and charge them big to play weak hands. I'm pretty sure that's strong poker strategy.

As far as your comment on "over-raising" I don't know what you mean. Raising when you are the favorite is only sensible, and if you're the large favorite, then it makes sense to raise large if you're going to get called with lots of worse hands, unless you are worrying about ICM stuff, and I mainly play cash. Also, if you don't have fold equity because you're playing against someone who'll call a preflop raise with their entire limping range, then you need to replace that with hand equity and getting maximum value. What, to your mind, makes a particular raise size an "over-raise", and why? Can you over-raise with AA preflop in a cash game if you have good reason to think you'll get called?

Add on edit: Think of it this way. If you could play all in every hand knowing that you always had a 50.1% to 49.9%, you'd be crazy not to play that game. You'd have swings, but over time, it's guaranteed money. If someone limp/calls with the top 50% of cards, and you open-raise/raise with top 25% of cards, then you're the favorite most of the time, right? It's like the 50.1% vs 49.9%, but with better odds, and you get more control.

Yes kq is ahead 60/40 but i would not call a 10 percent difference a "huge equity advantage". A huge equity advantage is maybe 80/20.

Limping along with hands like 74s in late pos after someone weak limped is perfectly fine imo if u have a good stack against weak opponents. But u will not always win the hand by checking it down with medium pair. U will also get into difficult situations sometimes where u will loose a lot of money. Lets say flop comes 56(our suit) and a king. U now have an open ended straight flush draw. Ur opponent now suddenly fires pot (in a limped pot) on the flop and turn, u obv call and miss both streets. U will have to give up river because this kind of limping opponent would never ever fold top pair decent kicker. So who did u punish exactly? urself in the end! In the second example u suddenly start to raise as a semi bluff in a limped pot. Yes it worked out for u this time but another day u will blast off in a flopped fullhouse/trips or whatever decent hand that will not fold. U are being results oriented here. Only because those 2 plays worked at that very moment does not mean it will always play out like this. In both examples ur opponent looses a relatively small pot while in other cases u will probably loose a medium or even big pot because draws missed or u flop a weak toppair/weak trips or whatever second best hand. or by bluffing/semi bluffing.

The only way to punish limpers is by raising their limp pre. Thats what this term means and there is no other way imo.

By overraising pre i mean raising up to 15bb pre as mentioned by u. But yes if u sit in very soft and deep cash games where every raise gets called no matter what, you can consider higher raises than normal. I mostly play donkaments atm that do not play that deep and there such raises are not recommended.

 

[Roobz75]

Some times it is good to be a limper, especially when you have an aggressive table and you are holding the "nuts", I look at every hand I am dealt and decide there and then before the flop whether I would be prepared to go all-in or not, and if the answer is yes, I will limp, hoping someone will raise me and then I can re-raise 4x betting or even shoving all-in.
On-line I once came up against an aggressive player who would push all-in on every hand I limped in on and I would have to fold mediocre hands, but when he started messaging me calling me a Coward and asking me why I wouldn't call him I just replied "When I'm ready" and left it like that, as the game progressed and he took out players, others joined the table and because I had been ignoring his remarks he started bullying new players.
Eventually I was dealt K/K and thought that's good enough, I limped, he shoved, I called and won. The very next hand I was dealt A/A and thought lets do it again, We did and it was goodnight from him.
So the morale is "Be careful what you wish for" because you can push a person so far, before he pushes back.

Encore. Have to agree with everything you said. 👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

[Dobbler1]

I limp.
Lets meet at the table.
Lets see if you can punish me (or yourself)

Daniel Negreanu limps too. I'm not saying all limpers are bad, but the one's that limp/call a 75% hand range regardless of the size of the raise are bad, and I'm happy to exploit their badness. I'm happy to play you if you show up at the table I'm on, but I don't play poker as an ego contest, or at least try not to. I always try to play against worse players. If that's you, then I'm especially happy to play you. If not, then probably not.

 

[Dobbler1]

Yes kq is ahead 60/40 but i would not call a 10 percent difference a "huge equity advantage". A huge equity advantage is maybe 80/20.

Limping along with hands like 74s in late pos after someone weak limped is perfectly fine imo if u have a good stack against weak opponents. But u will not always win the hand by checking it down with medium pair. U will also get into difficult situations sometimes where u will loose a lot of money. Lets say flop comes 56(our suit) and a king. U now have an open ended straight flush draw. Ur opponent now suddenly fires pot (in a limped pot) on the flop and turn, u obv call and miss both streets. U will have to give up river because this kind of limping opponent would never ever fold top pair decent kicker. So who did u punish exactly? urself in the end! In the second example u suddenly start to raise as a semi bluff in a limped pot. Yes it worked out for u this time but another day u will blast off in a flopped fullhouse/trips or whatever decent hand that will not fold. U are being results oriented here. Only because those 2 plays worked at that very moment does not mean it will always play out like this. In both examples ur opponent looses a relatively small pot while in other cases u will probably loose a medium or even big pot because draws missed or u flop a weak toppair/weak trips or whatever second best hand. or by bluffing/semi bluffing.

The only way to punish limpers is by raising their limp pre. Thats what this term means and there is no other way imo.

I just don't see your point here. I was in the big blind. Should I have raised with 74suited from the big blind, with two limpers who likely have a better hand than I do who call every preflop raise? Hands like 7-4suited are at the bottom of their range. Why wouldn't I check and see what the flop brings?

Again, I am talking about a total strategy, not just one hand. playing smallball with marginal hands and big pots with good hands. If you can only accept that "punishing limpers" means raising them, that seems like a closed minded position.

 

[Luca Santos]

Is it right to punish limpers? Of course yes!
But some care is needed.
Avoid bluffing, play your hands for value.
Connected pots should be more careful, avoid inflating.
In case of over bats analyze well before paying.
GL!!!