Limping always bad ?

Fahrenheit451

Fahrenheit451

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All poker authorities advocate that limping is BAD. Limpers are driven by hope that flop would make their shitty cards good. But after everyone limps, button will raise over the head and everyone folds, because they are weak. And showing weakness when you are weak is NO NO in poker.
But what about limping with AA UTG ? And reraise after button (or anyone else) raises ?
Could it work in long run ?
 
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Sagory

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All poker authorities advocate that limping is BAD. Limpers are driven by hope that flop would make their shitty cards good. But after everyone limps, button will raise over the head and everyone folds, because they are weak. And showing weakness when you are weak is NO NO in poker.
But what about limping with AA UTG ? And reraise after button (or anyone else) raises ?
Could it work in long run ?
AA are the best cards preflop, but might be worthless after the flop, especially when you face multiple players in the pot. The one who will raise the limper(s) will also call or raise your first in bet.
 
Vallet

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I don't think that limping is always bad. And there are many reasons for this. For example, if there are a lot of calling players at your table. It doesn't matter what size you raise, as long as they are ready to call with any cards.
A lot depends on the size of the stack. You can play a limp-call with good cards, so as not to create a large pot on the preflop. Because someone will make a big bet on everything. And we can control the size of the pot on the preflop.
 
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fundiver199

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But what about limping with AA UTG ? And reraise after button (or anyone else) raises ? Could it work in long run ?

If you only ever limp-reraise AA, its obviously very unbalanced, and you might as well play with your cards face up. But if the table dynamic is aggressive with limps being raised a lot, and the opponents wont pick up on, what you are doing, then sure why not. Its also worth noting though, that if you make a normal raise, you might get 3-bet, which put even more chips in the pot. So limping as a "trap" only makes sense, if you think, people are isolating limps much wider than, they are 3-betting.

If there ever is a situation to do it, its probably in tournaments, when you are so short, that people might jam over a limp. But again you need opponents, who wont pick up on the fact, that you are not limping, because you have some junky hand, that wants to see a cheap flop, but because you have aces. So table image is crucial here, and fish are much more likely to get away with this than TAGs or LAGs. If I see a TAG or LAG suddenly limp UTG with a 12BB stack, I am not going to fall into that obvious trap.
 
TeUnit

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I do not think its a great move to limp AA when you are very deep, because you will likely end up winning small pots when nobody hits 2 pair or trips and losing your stack when they do.

The other thing to consider is if you are a tight aggressive player and suddenly make an unusual utg limp then thinking villans will probably notice.
 
Tracid

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Limping with AA UTG preflop is a trap some players use occasionally but it doesn't come without risk.

Limp-trapping with AA is better used when folded around to you on the button/SB in my experience.

Used in that way you remove the BB's opportunity to fold and escape from your aces preflop and often you'll find the SB or BB come over the top sensing weakness.

When you limp AA UTG you are opening yourself up to the possibility of a multi-way limped pot and are vastly increasing the chances of getting out-drawn.

While falling short of saying never ever do this, it's definitely something that wouldn't be advisable to attempt overly-frequently.

Kind Regards,
 
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Hemified

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It all depends on the situation probably. I limp in sometimes if im trying to get more chips outta som1 I know will fold with a raise. I usually raise to chase half the players away but sometimes that don't work either some people will call anything to see the flop. Good luck and have fun.
 
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valanddon

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If you know you have the nuts limping is a way to get all you can
from the hand.
 
henriquemaduro

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All poker authorities advocate that limping is BAD. Limpers are driven by hope that flop would make their shitty cards good. But after everyone limps, button will raise over the head and everyone folds, because they are weak. And showing weakness when you are weak is NO NO in poker.
But what about limping with AA UTG ? And reraise after button (or anyone else) raises ?
Could it work in long run ?
If you limp with AA you got a strategy for your hand and high value. Its bad when you dont have any strategy, only fold for any raise
 
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ROYALROAD

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I think it's very stupid to say that the limp is bad.
 
lcid86

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No hard and fast rule. Sometimes limping makes sense. Right table, with loose players a limp can pay off big.
 
roger perkins

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You should never limp in when you are first to enter a pot. IMHO.
 
Roller

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If it's not scared money but instead it could be used as a strategy in certain situations considering the multi dimensions of the specific table dynamics.
 
terryk

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if you havn't limped,you havn't lived,,, :cool:
 
Phoenix Wright

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"Limping always bad?" No.
Any statements, or questions, with absolutes like "always" or "never" are usually not correct. Some things are indeed absolutes, but most things (especially in poker) have exceptions.

Is limping ALWAYS bad? No. Is it usually bad? Yes, it usually is worse than open-raising.

The primary problem with limping is that you allow others into the pot after you for a cheaper price - even if you have a powerful hand like the mighty AA, you are still vulnerable to combined equity from many players after you.

Similarly, limping is also "bad" in the sense that it limits how many "ways" you can win the pot. If you open-raise, there is a chance that everyone will fold and you pick up the pot (can hardly complain with the good result of winning a pot preflop and especially so with rising blinds or even an ante in play). However, if you open-limp (or limp behind), then there is no chance of anyone after you folding, unless someone raises after you act and now you are not the aggressor (and likely out of position now as well).

To illustrate as example of even the mighty AA hand vulnerable to equity from many players, here is an example of holdings with their equity:

Hero (BTN): Ah Ad - 62.57%

SB: Js Ts - 21.34%

BB: 7c 2c - 16.09%

These percentages are calculated by simply putting these hands into the free poker calculator Equilab.

In this example, our Hero had the best preflop hand possible while on the Button. Instead of open-raising, they open-limped and the blinds stay in the hand. This is just one sample of holdings, but here we see how even pocket Aces are only winning a little over 60% of the time in this multi-way pot. Even 72 (although suited) is winning about 16% of the time here!

Now imagine we were to open-raise instead. Most likely, at least one player would fold and perhaps we could take the pot right here. Let us say we open-raise instead and the 7c 2c hand in the Big Blind (BB) folds.

Here is our new equity with Ad Ah vs Js Ts:

AA - 78.28%

JTs - 21.72%

This example (with a heads-up pot or with 3 players going to the Flop) had our Hero on the Button (BTN), but what if we weren't so lucky?

In that scenario, it is likely others after us will limp behind and now we are in a multi-way pot with one or more players having position on us! This is just a scenario (or a few) which hopefully convey why limping is often discouraged. Is it ALWAYS bad? No; usually, yes.
 
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Recreationalplayer

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Limping is a decent strategy from SB in Tourneys
 
Zapahlohotrona

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Limping AA from early position makes sense if the table is aggressive and you know you will get a raise.But it's better to play through a raise.
 
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Medina

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Nor do I think Limp is always bad.
I am also one of those who often limps, but it's not good to overdo it,because you will quickly run out of stacks.
AA UTG, I don't limp, I don't think it's worth it with the strongest hand, I don't think it's worth it in the long run. With AA, i always raise.
 
tw082

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I think it can be a good way to get a read on the table.
 
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caracaski220

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caracaski220

As a practice it is bad. but it might be advisable if you know the players at table are not reraising. Or if you are trying to trap ,might b another reason. But in general, if you are just limping, you are giving away money.
 
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dzsire

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Sometimes it’s worth a try, but there are days when you give chance to the others with your limp, and they will knock you out of the game... But in general: If somebody want to play against your AA, he have to pay (so raise and squeeze out as many players as possible.)
 
fletchdad

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All poker authorities advocate that limping is BAD. Limpers are driven by hope that flop would make their shitty cards good. But after everyone limps, button will raise over the head and everyone folds, because they are weak. And showing weakness when you are weak is NO NO in poker.
But what about limping with AA UTG ? And reraise after button (or anyone else) raises ?
Could it work in long run ?


I havent read other answers so I am sure this has been addressed, but, just in case....

Limping with the intention of re-raising is always an option. If you think it is the best money-making move. But in a game where a lot of limping is going on, you are playing your hand face up unless you have already been steadily punishing limpers........ If your intention is to get a lot of limpers to fold, then sure. Play it this way.

But a min-raise, or a larger raise, depending on the entire table dynamics, might be a better +ev play.

So, yea, in the right situation, a call could be good. Especially when there is an agro player who will surely raise so you can re-raise (again, face up). And if you are VERY lucky, he will try to stack you pre....

But, as always, it all kinda depends....
 
blueskies

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All poker authorities advocate that limping is BAD. Limpers are driven by hope that flop would make their shitty cards good. But after everyone limps, button will raise over the head and everyone folds, because they are weak. And showing weakness when you are weak is NO NO in poker.
But what about limping with AA UTG ? And reraise after button (or anyone else) raises ?
Could it work in long run ?

Limping with AA is a great way to cry about losing with AA. The rare circumstance to do it is if the players behind you will raise any limper and they love threebetting and fourbetting against perceived weakness. And if raised, try to get it all in before the flop. Otherwise you will be playing OOP in an inflated pot with a hand you may not be disciplined enough to fold.

As for limping, limping is not ALWAYS bad. I am a firm believer that in poker there is no ALWAYS or NEVERS. You gotta always adjust and play the hand you have now against the player you are up against now. I am not saying limp with 93os or retarded hands like that, but there are certain hands you want to see the flop cheaply with and with multiple players in the pot so when you do flop a monster, there is at least one other player who likely also caught a piece.

Let's say you have 33 from early position, you open to 3xbb, someone 3bets you to 10xbb, you gonna toss? 33 is a hand that's usually only good as a setmine. If you limp and someone raises, you can call. Same effect as if you open and get called. Yes you take the initiative if you raised, but how aggressive are you really gonna be when you don't flop a set 8 out of 9 times and all you have is a tiny pair that could only beat an airball? I see dudes overplay small PPs all the time and I get a good laugh. Guaranteed money losing players.

If you open with 33 and get called, and you cbet and get called, then what do you do?
 
eberetta1

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I don't know how many times I could have limped in on the cheap only to see two cards on the table go to waste because I did not go in on the hand. And sure enough two or three people raising which would have made a handsome payoff. So, limping is not always a bad thing, especially when I have a weak hand.
 
GRIN281289

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If you are lucky you can, but if you are not, you will lose chips in about 70% of the game.
 
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