how to play AA

[Stu_Ungar]

i would like you to explain that, please. if you say i am wrong in any of my inferences, that may be good. but just because you refuse to listen to arguments and just go on and on about something you read in a book does not mean you should laugh at people who do not take everything for granted the same way. by now, i have reasonable doubt that you have even tried to comprehend what RR and i have been trying to explain...

SS hinges around shove or fold preflop.. There is a thread on this. If you want to argue otherwise, then you are just wasting your time.

also, now that i have seen what it takes, i am nearly 100% certain that the following quote from a couple pages earlier in this thread was an empty boast:

the math that goes behind something like that is actually very complex and time-consuming to do. counting on approximation engines like PokerStove can only get you so far...

It is quite complex, although the logic behind it is fairly simple. I could calculate it for you, but I have no intention of putting in the time and effort required into it. Ultimately its an EV calculation... its not all that hard.


in that post, you go on to say that this is done only in hope that the opponent will spew chips. but you fail to account for a couple things: a) they have already spewed chips by calling preflop, and b) since they have no way to know exactly what we have, they can still make mistakes (as defined by Sklansky) by either calling or folding. so perhaps that hope is not without a foundation...?

if you take offense at any of the above, i am ready to apologize, provided you show me where i am mistaken :deal:
Well it kind of goes back to my comment in this post. What you are describing is not SS strategy. Are you suggesting that all other hands you play SS would be shove or fold but AA is a special case?.. I doubt it.

SS is a mathematically unexploitable strategy, this is why deep stack players dislike SS players so much.

I really don't think any DS player would have the same feelings of resentment towards someone playing the way you describe.

You raise small, create a MW pot and then shove the flop allowing the villain to fold or take correct odds (or near correct) on a draw.

..

 

[benevg]

SS hinges around shove or fold preflop.. There is a thread on this. If you want to argue otherwise, then you are just wasting your time.

so i am wasting my time, again because you have read something somewhere and refuse to look into it. okay, i'll just stop, eventually. (btw, i have not seen that thread - care to point me to it?)

It is quite complex, although the logic behind it is fairly simple.

this is completely right - by my estimation, only about 12 billion very simple options to consider and condense into a meaningful form.

What you are describing is not SS strategy.

next, you would tell me there is only one correct SS strategy

 

[Stu_Ungar]

so i am wasting my time, again because you have read something somewhere and refuse to look into it. okay, i'll just stop,

Is this a promise?

eventually. (btw, i have not seen that thread - care to point me to it?)

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/ring-why-do-people-not-like-156068/

this is completely right - by my estimation, only about 12 billion very simple options to consider and condense into a meaningful form.

Er no.. just look at your EV pre flop in terms of your opponents folding, calling and re raising.

Then look at a post flop separately. Make some assumptions on what hands the play preflop then calculate the probability of the flop hitting those type of hands. Then calculate your ev against them folding or calling. Its complex but its not as though you ave to look at billions of permutations. If you need your preflop EV then just use pokerstove.

It isnt all that difficult.

next, you would tell me there is only one correct SS strategy

OK look up something like the SAGE system. You will get the idea why mathmatically unexpliitable dosnt leave a lot of room for creativity.

 

[isaac]

geez you were unlucky, try using sharkscope before you play, and i definetly recomend raising 3x the big blnd at least when you have pocket aces preflop

 

[benevg]

in the thread you linked to, it is very well explained that SS does not exactly hinge on shoving preflop. quite often, it works so that you shove on any flop, much like i said in this discussion. so there is nothing really new there.

i am also fairly certain that your idea of how to calculate all those odds is quite close to the truth, but not exactly there (much like PokerStove's). all you have managed to do is to persuade me that you simply like your rule-of-thumb saying and plays, and won't consider changing them until a pro comes along and tells you that it is correct to do so. i am saying this because i have started putting in the time and effort that you don't want to, and initial estimations support my point, which you still vehemently refuse to even consider because no pro/author ever said/wrote it.

regarding the SAGE system: first, it is completely not applicable in this case. second, while it tells me that it is a mathematically proven way to be unexploitable, it only works in specific cases. in fact, in cash games where the blinds are not as quite as small as for SAGE purposes, it would be close to a disaster to try to adhere to a simple push-or-fold strategy. third, saying that "mathematically unexploitable" equals "no room for creativity" is not very true either. of course, there are certain limits to what you could do, but in most good strategies, you can make choices about this or that, for example what hands to bluff with. and this choice would make your strategy no more exploitable than if you made it differently. you simply have to pick the right % of hands to do it, and you are set (and this was written in many good books).

 

[Stu_Ungar]

in the thread you linked to, it is very well explained that SS does not exactly hinge on shoving preflop. quite often, it works so that you shove on any flop, much like i said in this discussion. so there is nothing really new there.

i am also fairly certain that your idea of how to calculate all those odds is quite close to the truth, but not exactly there (much like PokerStove's). all you have managed to do is to persuade me that you simply like your rule-of-thumb saying and plays, and won't consider changing them until a pro comes along and tells you that it is correct to do so. i am saying this because i have started putting in the time and effort that you don't want to, and initial estimations support my point, which you still vehemently refuse to even consider because no pro/author ever said/wrote it.

regarding the SAGE system: first, it is completely not applicable in this case. second, while it tells me that it is a mathematically proven way to be unexploitable, it only works in specific cases. in fact, in cash games where the blinds are not as quite as small as for SAGE purposes, it would be close to a disaster to try to adhere to a simple push-or-fold strategy. third, saying that "mathematically unexploitable" equals "no room for creativity" is not very true either. of course, there are certain limits to what you could do, but in most good strategies, you can make choices about this or that, for example what hands to bluff with. and this choice would make your strategy no more exploitable than if you made it differently. you simply have to pick the right % of hands to do it, and you are set (and this was written in many good books).

ok

 

[Jared]

Lee Nelson said it best:

" There's no such thing as Check or Call, it's either Raise or Fold".

He da man.

 

[Implied Odds3]

It was a bad beat but it wasn't 1%. I don't see any huge mistakes in the way you played it, you were just unlucky.

 

[Boseovski]

Honestly all you could have done is initially raised a bit more but you did everythign right you raised small hiding your AA getting your opponent yo go all-in with a worse hand. Nothing wrong just bad luck.

 

[Surf Rat]

Damn them pocket Aces they look invincible but they are'nt....you had him trapped after flop and the enemy allin ...it was just the chance of happenstance that he caught the third 7 that time......

 

[Goodwooter]

i dont have a problem with your check raise...but when he shoved you should have been out of the hand...it so happens you were not beat at the time and it was a terrible play on his part...but either way...you gotta fold to that shove...this reminds me of a hand i had at the casino last weekend...1/2 dollar game i raise to 7 in early posingtion with AA...get 3 callers...flop is JJ7...i check and there is a bet...a raise of that bet followed by a call...i get out...8 for the turn and alot more action and the pot is getting huge...river comes an ACE...making JJ the only hand that has me beat...more action and the showdown comes first better turns JA reraiser KK...and JK for the button...this pot was a montster and i missed out on a lot of money...but it was the right fold

 

[JustRaiseTheBlinds]

You always want AA pre-flop allin, so you did nothing wrong...
But because of the multiway pot you were in the AA can get beat a lot faster...

 

[Dwilius]

That's enough. There was some kind of discussion that ended in July.